all this gay debate shit going round

[oats]

@Split Eight

we aren't heading towards overpopulation - we are overpopulated. Even if there is a sharp decline, keep in mind that this millennial generation is the largest generation. Ever. Meaning, a decline is to be expected (see: Malthusian Economics). The overall trend over the course of humanity has shown nothing but steady growth since the bubonic plague.

As for everything we do is natural, you missed my point. Constructing homes is very natural, it is essential for survival. Paving parking lots, malls, office buildings, even most community housing, does not occur in nature, and therefore is not natural. Synthesizing diseases into immunities? Same thing. In short, using nature to help us achieve similar ends is natural, dominating it and manipulating it for the same purpose is not.

Does this mean that all of these things are bad? Of course not. That's the point. Just because something isn't a natural state intended by nature, does not mean it isn't important or meaningful (though there are strong arguments out there to state that all of my examples result in negative consequences for the species).

[Split]

Originally Posted by oats

@Split Eight

we aren't heading towards overpopulation - we are overpopulated. Even if there is a sharp decline, keep in mind that this millennial generation is the largest generation. Ever. Meaning, a decline is to be expected (see: Malthusian Economics). The overall trend over the course of humanity has shown nothing but steady growth since the bubonic plague.

As for everything we do is natural, you missed my point. Constructing homes is very natural, it is essential for survival. Paving parking lots, malls, office buildings, even most community housing, does not occur in nature, and therefore is not natural. Synthesizing diseases into immunities? Same thing. In short, using nature to help us achieve similar ends is natural, dominating it and manipulating it for the same purpose is not.

Does this mean that all of these things are bad? Of course not. That's the point. Just because something isn't a natural state intended by nature, does not mean it isn't important or meaningful (though there are strong arguments out there to state that all of my examples result in negative consequences for the species).

all of our structures serve a purpose. and plenty of other species dominate and control nature on a lesser level. we are the largest and most dominant, of course there is no comparison. we're unprecedented.

[oats]

Man, again, not really getting it. I never said the structures don't serve purposes. Or that other species don't control their environment. I'm saying the WAY we do it is not natural. That's all. There's no debate to it, by definition.

many civilizations were 'unprecedented' n they fell for other reasons...n homosexuality was around in the majority if not all of those civilizations, and they fell for reasons other then that...
u guys are making this out to b more then it is...
i have more a problem with the 'socialization of homosexuality' thru things like entertainment and stuff then the act of getting married.
who gives a fck bout a ceremony, i care more about seeing that sht publicized to a point where society almost embraces it, rather then simply allowing it to exist w the same civil liberties as str8 couples.

[NYCSPITZ]

oatmeal won this thread

close thread

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by God Of War

my issue is, sex is technically supposed to be for reproduction. so it kind of is against mother nature or the universe to be homosexual right?

yes.

but at the same time theres mad dogs that lick other dogs' dicks.

i think humans try and put a morality to it and make it an issue. thats why its a religious thing, because whether you are religious or not, most people are raised by somewhat religious people, in a society dominated by religions that say it is wrong.

those same religions are ALL ABOUT procreation tho. mainly because if im a christian, i have a wife and 10 kids. 1 christian/2 christians, just turned into 12 christians, this helps spread the religions area of influence and etc.

but word

as to how i feel about it? i think its gross disgusting and wrong. lesbians too. i lived with a couple and was banging one. changed nothing. they were weird as shit. my dick was hard. but the whole situation was weird.

im not comfortable around gay people of any kind.

do i think they should get married?

i dont care. i dont care if weirdo's wanna be weirdo's. them getting married doesnt effect my taxes right? not sure how that works. but word. let them get married. getting marrieds the most ridiculous retarded man made invention of all time anyways.

but word so final answer

i dont care if gays are gay. i dont care if gays get married. i just aint trying to be around them personally.

[oats]

^^agreed @NYCSPITZ

-on the same lvl as uh-oh tbh

[Split]

Originally Posted by oats

Man, again, not really getting it. I never said the structures don't serve purposes. Or that other species don't control their environment. I'm saying the WAY we do it is not natural. That's all. There's no debate to it, by definition.

I guess I just don't get what you mean by the way we do it... do you mean dominating and controlling nature, as in genetic manipulation of themselves and other creatures?


idk yo

I just find it hard to believe a species could grow to be our size and with our communal capabilities without doing exactly what we have done

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by oats

for anyone using the "unnatural" argument, keep in mind that 99% of daily human activity is unnatural. It's not natural to pave the ground, to put preservatives on food, to genetically modify plants and animals for consumption, etc. All of those are human constructs. If homosexuality is, in fact, a human construct (which is very debatable), that doesn't justify it as immoral in and of itself.

Furthermore, human population has had unchecked rise since the bubonic plague, so our survival as a species has nothing to do with this. If anything, we need less people reproducing.

Beyond that, there are several examples of animals engaging in homosexual activity. Though there isn't any genetic marker of homosexuality at this point, there is plenty of empirical evidence that suggests there may be biological causes. So it may not be as "unnatural" as some believe.

To me, that's all irrelevant. There are gay people in the world. They exist. Who cares if they get married? This strikes me as one of those issues that, in 50 years, people will be scratching their heads about why this was an issue at all. Gay marriage legalization is inevitable, I don't see why people get all twisted about it.

i agree with you for the most part

but every single things humans do is NATURAL

nothing we do is unnatural. we are of this planet. me typing this on a computer, and you guys reading it off of computers or phones miles away is as natural as a huge termite mound in africa. a paved road is natural. the same way ants can carve a trail in the dirt and build underground mega cities.

everything is natural.

[Split]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

i agree with you for the most part

but every single things humans do is NATURAL

nothing we do is unnatural. we are of this planet. me typing this on a computer, and you guys reading it off of computers or phones miles away is as natural as a huge termite mound in africa. a paved road is natural. the same way ants can carve a trail in the dirt and build underground mega cities.

everything is natural.

Exactly

u guys r arguing two diff things its like asking how smart a cat is

for a cat to be a cat its as smart as it can be
but for a cat to be relative to a dog...there two totally seperate animals with seperate needs....so its not really comparable...ones a cat ones a dog

yes anything we construct is natural to us bc its natural for us to construct
but to other animal species utilizing synthetic materials to build is not natural...

just an example.

[oats]

what I'm saying is, the processes we've used to control and manipulate nature are not natural - they are man-made constructs that do not occur in nature. So your example of genetic manipulation is an example of something not natural, because that doesn't happen on its own in nature. Neither do office buildings, parking lots, immunities, etc. Those are things we created as a species, we introduced them to nature. Therefore, they are not natural.


You are right, though; the human population could not be what it is without their unnatural acts. PM me if you want more clarification, don't wanna be blowing up this thread anymore.

[uh-oh]

also i dont think incest is wrong either

i read somewhere about the old kings and shit who would keep it all in the fam

its something like, if me and my sister banged out 2 kids, a boy and a girl. they have like a 5 percent chance of having a big ass head or long dumb hands or something. but if those children reproduce, it doubles. so on and so forth. also if you bang your own kid tho, it like triples or some shit i forget. but thats why when plagues and shit hit, these big families of like 8 princes and 6 princes were dwindling to shit like 1 of each. and then you get MAD KINGS, shits basically game of thrones.

so really, if being gay is viewed as being fine, i dont see it as a huge leap to jump to incest. thats also a very natural thing. found amongst alot of shit yo. i think its chimps, but they'll fuck everyone and everything. might be bonobo's or some shit i think thats chimps. the only thing you wont see, is a mother fuck a son. but they are also a species who obviously fuck for pleasure.

but word if two dudes can play with eachothers buttholes, why can't i put my dick in my sisters?

REAL TALK

[oats]

I can see that argument, that everything happens because it's natural, but there are some contentions. For example, humans often fight impulses. You see a hot chick, you want to grab her tits, you see some dude pull out a stack of bills at a restaurant, you want to take/have it, etc. But you don't do those because, as a human, you're aware of social norms that defy your impulses. That inner-conflict is a testament to our ability to overcome nature (in this case, our inner-nature), which is not a natural thing to do compared to the rest of nature. Humans are the anomaly on this planet.


I'm operating on the definition of natural as "occurs freely in nature." This definition also may be a cause for confusion here.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by oats

what I'm saying is, the processes we've used to control and manipulate nature are not natural - they are man-made constructs that do not occur in nature. So your example of genetic manipulation is an example of something not natural, because that doesn't happen on its own in nature. Neither do office buildings, parking lots, immunities, etc. Those are things we created as a species, we introduced them to nature. Therefore, they are not natural.


You are right, though; the human population could not be what it is without their unnatural acts. PM me if you want more clarification, don't wanna be blowing up this thread anymore.

it happens on its own in nature.

we are a part of nature. you are looking at this from a perspective that humans are above animals or some shit.

a scientist changing a chromosone in a seed of corn to make some monsanto shit is ABSOLUTELY NATURAL. its no different than a bee making honey from pollen or whatever they're wizardry is. or a moth in china making silk.

you as a human see it as like, oh thats what moths do, thats natual. humans do what humans do. its natural.

everything we do or can do is natural. if we create a species, thats a natural process.

an alien from zoltar didnt come to this planet and create it. we did. and even if an alien did, whats the difference between that and a meteor with bacteria on it hitting earth? that bacteria isnt natural to the earth.

i think the real argument is the word natural. everything is natural.

i eat pizza and turn it into poop.

[oats]

see my post following that one. and no, we're no longer a part of nature. We are in a dominant position over it, we are above it. and the idea that if we choose to do something it is equal to it occurring on is own is fundamentally impossible.

[uh-oh]

you are not understanding that we are nature

everything we do is occurring freely in nature.

[oats]

I get it, but that doesn't mean every choice I make is a natural one. Refer to my example of going against your impulses - something is either a natural impulse or a consciously overridden decision, it can't be both.

We are/can be part of nature, but unlike the rest of nature, we are able to supersede our limitations and do things that are unnatural.

[VividEnds]

Oats is not making sense. Are cats and dogs unnatural because they've overridden fight or flight responses?

Our limitations are an extension of the size of our community. By forming nations and towns, our limitations expanded greatly. If we sent ten people into the wilderness with modern equipment, they would revert back to old ways within a generation or two because they have no means to sustain their existence/ maintain that equipment with their given population size.