Is 'reality' as we know it a dream?

[Ryan 12]

kill yourself, seriously. then you'll know for sure if you're dreaming or not

Okay then, ill add in Astral projection to the mix.

What if when one masters this, they are traveling to the 'true' world where the soul exists. I have astral projected once momentarily before I returned. It was an amazing experience.

@Veritas didn't you say I came to you in a dream once? (no rawnmo)

[Just C]

We don't know. We just live. All the proof points to it being real. We feel it, we hear it, we smell it, we see it. What proof it isn't real is strong enough to counter the above proof?

You waste your time trying to figure this out you'll drive yourself nuts. Take it for what it is, go with it and enjoy the ride I say.

Originally Posted by Just C

We don't know. We just live. All the proof points to it being real. We feel it, we hear it, we smell it, we see it. What proof it isn't real is strong enough to counter the above proof?

You waste your time trying to figure this out you'll drive yourself nuts. Take it for what it is, go with it and enjoy the ride I say.

The bodily senses. feel, seeing etc. If real is defined as those then it is merely your central nervous system projecting itself. Although if you are not 'real' to begin with, then how do you know that any of these senses or yourself for that matter even exist?

[PancakeBrah]

I tend to agree with Just C. When I was younger debates and ideas like this interested me but now it just seems so pointless. If dreams are reality, cool. If dreams arent, cool. I'm not going to be the human who figures out and unlocks the truth in existentialism. Enjoy the ride and let the philo majors and thinktanks busy themselves with the impossible quandaries of being. I prefer not to fall in the well while looking at the stars.

[Ryan 12]

Originally Posted by PancakeBrah

I tend to agree with Just C. When I was younger debates and ideas like this interested me but now it just seems so pointless. If dreams are reality, cool. If dreams arent, cool. I'm not going to be the human who figures out and unlocks the truth in existentialism. Enjoy the ride and let the philo majors and thinktanks busy themselves with the impossible quandaries of being. I prefer not to fall in the well while looking at the stars.

some institutions offer up to a billion dollars for the solving of certain mysteries

not to mention bragging rights, awards, etc

this is more about interests. i'm not interested in pony riding, so here's what i do - get the fuck out

i try not to get to indepth with this sort of stuff either, but philosophy is great form of skepticism

skepticism is what happens when things get too comfortable

[namix]

Originally Posted by PancakeBrah

I tend to agree with Just C. When I was younger debates and ideas like this interested me but now it just seems so pointless. If dreams are reality, cool. If dreams arent, cool. I'm not going to be the human who figures out and unlocks the truth in existentialism. Enjoy the ride and let the philo majors and thinktanks busy themselves with the impossible quandaries of being. I prefer not to fall in the well while looking at the stars.

Damn Cake, that was really well written and even came off genuine (not sure if it was or not), but def. the stance of the dudes that i most respect who do not care to chase the white rabbit anymore... for some reason when all of my buddies were in that mode you said you were in, that is when i had more of your current stance --- then one day i came around full circle and most of them had gone the other direction lol.

'i prefer not to fall in the well while looking at the stars" - well-put, literally... i just don't care where i fall anymore because i'm too deep in the well, but still appreciate those same stars. :D

[Just C]

But like I said mate, this is ALL we have to go off. Until the day arrives where strong counter proof is produced. I'm inclined to believe my senses.

Can you right now, this instance, in your next post, provide counter proof? Proof which supports this all being a dream?

If not (Not saying this to be a dick) you should save all that matrix limbo mumbo jumbo what if speculation, and your breath. Because it's endless pointless speculation. It's a hamster wheel if your going to throw these what ifs out of thin air nobody can prove to be false.

That's like me saying god exists and if you can't prove other wise then I am right.

I haven't seen God. Nothing proves he does exist so I'm content with what evidence I do have to go off.

I have senses telling me life is real. I have nothing "proving" otherwise.. You get the picture.

I know you're not pushing your view on me but the principle remains the same. I'll stick my trust in the ONLY proof I have.

When (If) the day comes we find out it was all just a dream.'it will be the most wonderful mind fuck of a revelation. Until then I'm happy living a "lie" que sera sera.

[Split]

what if we are all background characters in a particularly lucid Malachi masturbation trance?

His dad better not pop the latch before I finish college

[Mael]

Code Maroon, I repeat, Code Maroon.

We've got a loose nut. Gonna need The Cleaner asap.

@Masaii, Oh boy, you've really done it this time, mate.

[uh-oh]

NIGGAS

we dont have a soul, there is no astral projection, thats just you being a weirdo

we are just energy of the all

[Aesthetic]

When your dreaming, you don't remember memories from reality only fragments; never details. Vice-versa.

[Witty]

I think sometimes common sense needs to be used, people can convince themselves of anything, it's easy when there are no facts...common sense should be the answer.

As in...is life a dream?

No.

Why?

Cuz it just clearly is not.

[namix]

Originally Posted by Witty

I think sometimes common sense needs to be used, people can convince themselves of anything, it's easy when there are no facts...common sense should be the answer.

As in...is life a dream?

No.

Why?

Cuz it just clearly is not.

agreed that common sense should be used more often in general - but i normally think that at times when, for instance, traffic lights lose power at an intersection and people start looking at each other like wtf do we do now until somebody makes the bold decision to just go and then finally we start 'taking turns' lol.



but since we collectively use common sense so poorly for even the most common questions/problems, it often makes it a less effective solution for questions like this imo...

if common sense truly satiated these types of questions, then the answer would be common knowledge, you know?



Now if you personally accept "reality is not a dream, because clearly it's not" as enough - then kinda more like Cake's stance, no doubt, let others explore it further if they want to and just be at peace with what you know/or don't care to know/explore further....

At some point it's up to the individual to decide, somewhat arbitrarily, how they want to define (and/or confine) the meanings dream vs. reality....

to me it's literally all the same thing and literally (physically) a different state of mind at the 'time'.

[namix]

Something I've always thought was fascinating about this topic though is --- if we look to some of the greatest minds of our kind, sooo many of them gave more credence to the 'reality of dreams' than the general consensus does...


Here is a suuuper quick snapshot of some -- plenty of others that are undoubtedly more relevant...

but word -- "common sense"-wise, I think it's important to consider how commonly we prove ourselves wrong time and time again throughout history --- and that our understanding of how shit works is limited by our technological/scientific advancements which were created without a complete understanding.

------------------------------
It is by no means an irrational fancy that, in a future existence, we shall look upon what we think our present existence, as a dream.”
― Edgar Allan Poe

“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
― Albert Einstein

“I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?”
― John Lennon

"We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality."
― Judy Garland

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience."
― Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

“Reality is wrong. Dreams are for the real.”
― Tupac Shakur

[veritas]

let me ask you this....if you could choose what was your reality, would you choose this life, or your dreams?

Originally Posted by The Mind Assassin

let me ask you this....if you could choose what was your reality, would you choose this life, or your dreams?

Dreams

[veritas]

Originally Posted by King Masa II

Dreams

and why?

Originally Posted by The Mind Assassin

and why?

You only live for the present moment in dreams. In the 'real' world it seems that you are always living for the future, call it human nature I guess.

[namix]

Originally Posted by King Masa II

You only live for the present moment in dreams. In the 'real' world it seems that you are always living for the future, call it human nature I guess.

word up, straight truth bro. it all comes back to our ability to perceive our existence beyond the constraints of time....

Here is potentially a radical statement to piggy-back V's radical statement (both of which I sincerely view as logical, just not commonly accepted until the dots are connected):

WE THINK TIME MAKES UP REALITY, BUT IN REALITY WE MAKE UP TIME.


...in fact, according to 3 out of 4 of our brainwaves*, TIME DOES NOT EXIST. (*edit note: 5 brainwaves including the random "gamma" burst, always forget that one lol)

Moreover, we only experience Time in our waken/alert state, brainwaves primarily Beta... a state which is also characterized by general timidness and fear... How poetic that almost all of our "fear" at some juncture can relate to "time" itself, none more prominent than our own countdown clock to death.

In dreams THERE IS NO TIME.... and to your exact point Masa, no worry for the future....

Dreams are just as real as any other experience, but many disregard it, because "in time" we're trained to give more credence to the world "of time"..

That same state of timelessness can be reached while "awake" - we jump across the levels, but the faster pulsing waves trump our experience a lot of the "time"...


It can be reached in deep meditative states -- or even seen in moments of someone just being "in the zone"... even when an athlete starts performing at seemingly superhuman levels, what do they often say? "it was like the game SLOWED DOWN for me"... they are still 'bound' by time in that example, but are not letting it serve as a parameter for decisions --- because it shouldnt be... they just "perform"...


In Summary:
1. We do not perceive Time in 3 out of 4 of our brain wave frequencies
2. The one state we do experience time in is in our waken/fearful state.
3. Close your eyes and slow your mind; slow your mind and see past the veil of time.
4. See past the veil of time, and see the super-reality Veritas mentioned....

It is always available, and always has been... The longer we operate in time, the harder it is to escape it --- until, for many, we approach the point of no return and face our own demise....

When we face the moment of our death... as V also says often, "remember the future"... it brings us to the decision point which helps us look past it... There are many fears and internal demons faced along each individuals way -- so that phrase helps them jump to the 'point in the future' they need to deal with (and empower them to do so) before they get to the ultimate question, but if one remembers the future in entirety, you will remember where the two points on the line of existence meet in the circle of life, and that time was just one of the demons which fueled our ego and desire for self-perseverance.




Remove the veil of time and see the super-reality which is right before (and after) our eyes. ;)