Here's an odd, theological sort of question for debate

[Mael]

believe
biˈlēv/
verb

-- hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

Originally Posted by Witty

I think we are defining belief differently.

Originally Posted by Witty

I think it is likely I will wake in the morning

belief
biˈlēf/
noun

-- an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Originally Posted by Witty

Once you see it, it becomes knowledge and you don't need belief anymore.

My God, there is so much wrong with this statement. You're either ill-informed or stupid. Obviously, you haven't heard of illusions - that the senses are fallible.
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/t...ion-29558.html

Once you get past the problems of qualia, consider the statement "the color red is red is true." Well, not it's not. You have this problem;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_spectrum

If you're some sort of genius and figure that one out, then tackle the Hard Problem of consciousness. The complexity of this subject knows no end.

But keep spewing nonsense if it makes you feel better.

[Witty]

And word, enjoy being stoned...I'm off it for a while :( gotta get the lungs back in working order lol peace brah

[oats]

in that instance they can be, and we agree - belief is accepting something as true without absolute certainty. clearly, some things are more certain than others, but as long as there is some uncertainty, a degree of belief is involved.

as far as prediction vs. belief goes, I'd say a prediction is a type of belief, one that uses multiple tools to develop a numerical probability to something happening or existing, whereas a blind belief would be a belief that has no rationale or numerical probability. it may sound semantic, but you believe in the likelihood of something.

I think the obstacle here is the common associations of belief/believing are usually that specific genre of belief (blind). I'm thinking in strict terms of, if you don't/can't know something, you must believe some aspect about it.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Mael

believe
biˈlēv/
verb

-- hold (something) as an opinion; think or suppose.

believe
verb [T] /bɪˈliːv/
A2 to think that something is true, correct, or real: Strangely, no one believed us when we told them we'd been visited by a creature from Mars.
[+ that] He believes that all children are born with equal intelligence.
She's arriving tomorrow, I believe. "Is she coming alone?" "We believe not/so (= we think she is not/is)." [+ obj + to infinitive ] I believe her to be the finest violinist in the world. [+ obj + adj ] All the crew are missing, believed dead.

^All examples of the verb to believe, all examples of something that is not factual




belief
biˈlēf/
noun

-- an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

Exactly 'an acceptance' if you have to accept something is true you don't have infallibale proof and therefore should not be accepting it in the first place



My God, there is so much wrong with this statement. You're either ill-informed or stupid. Obviously, you haven't heard of illusions - that the senses are fallible.
http://forums.philosophyforums.com/t...ion-29558.html

Once you get past the problems of qualia, consider the statement "the color red is red is true." Well, not it's not. You have this problem;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_spectrum

If you're some sort of genius and figure that one out, then tackle the Hard Problem of consciousness. The complexity of this subject knows no end.

But keep spewing nonsense if it makes you feel better.

Your second point is not really relevant to the discussion, I understand entirely that the senses are fallible, and that our truth is based on our perception of the world, but but that does mean we should blindly accept things that we can not prove, we should not accept anything as truth if there is no evidence for it, which is what we are discussing. I am not saying ghosts don't exist, or that red is definitely red, I am saying that until something is proven it should not be accepted as truth, and to believe something is to accept it as truth. I'm not saying there are not things we can not see or feel, I am saying that until they are discovered why would we believe them?...because they might exist? It's like light....in the spectrum of light we see very litte, but we have discovered other light that our senses don't pick up, so we accept this as truth....however, that could not be accepted as truth or 'believed' until it was discovered. So I don't know where you are going with that.

I don't think you are as intelligent as you think you are, most who resort to insults are not.

[Mael]

1. Never claimed I was intelligent. But I do research these things and visit philosophy and physics forums daily, viewing endless arguments on exactly this
2. You're the one who is usually condescending, and I even told you to stop being that way before
3. lol @ that not being relevant to the conversation. If you knew anything about belief systems, you'd know it starts at the sentience level

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Mael

1. Never claimed I was intelligent. But I do research these things and visit philosophy and physics forums daily, viewing endless arguments on exactly this
2. You're the one who is usually condescending, and I even told you to stop being that way before
3. lol @ that not being relevant to the conversation. If you knew anything about belief systems, you'd know it starts at the sentience level

1. As do I
2. My condescension is tongue in cheek as is most of what I say on here
3. Ok, but how is that relevant? Why does that mean we should believe what we do not know to be true? There are things we do not know, for sure, but even if I believe something and it turns out to be true, I was still wrong to believe it before it had been proven, was I not?

[Mael]

"I was still wrong to believe it before it had been proven"

Search for David Hume and read up on his Problem of induction. Once you grasp the concept that there are things that cannot be proven or justified, you might finally understand why faith and belief are necessary, if not, inherent to sentient beings and crucial to a healthy human mind. Logic limits men, but that doesn't mean we dispose of it completely. Its more logical and reasonable to think some guy in the desert has a 1% chance of living and is going to die out there - but he'll take that 1% against all odds because logic can suck dick.

Belief is very important. Humans are more emotional beings than logical. And it helps -

http://www.newswise.com/articles/new...g-brain-cortex

Believe in something, preferably positive.