all this gay debate shit going round

[oats]

I have made a clear argument, numerous times. If anything, the whole "everything is natural" argument was a rebuttal to what I was saying about homosexuality.

My argument: Modern human society is built on a series of unnatural phenomenon, with "natural" defined as "something that occurs freely in nature," with "freely" meaning there are numerous, readily demonstrable examples.

Implications: Labeling something as immoral via being unnatural is a false assertion and cannot be made.

[VividEnds]

Originally Posted by oats

I have made a clear argument, numerous times. If anything, the whole "everything is natural" argument was a rebuttal to what I was saying about homosexuality.

My argument: Modern human society is built on a series of unnatural phenomenon, with "natural" defined as "something that occurs freely in nature," with "freely" meaning there are numerous, readily demonstrable examples.

Implications: Labeling something as immoral via being unnatural is a false assertion and cannot be made.

Thx

Now, what I am saying is this- the other connotation of the word "natural", as used by people in the homosexuality debate, implies that something is "with the will of nature", or is something that occurs/ 'comes to be' regardless of choice

As in skyscrapers and genetic modifications 'came to be' in order to efficiently house urban businesses that allow our society to function. And people see homosexuality as something that didnt 'come to be' because it serves no role in society

And I'm saying it is natural, because if it is a result of formative upbringing or early child development, and influence by culture, then it is inherently a part of human nature, and therefore within the scope of being purposeful



That might be poorly argued idk. I don't debate usually

[oats]

Originally Posted by VividEnds

Thx

Now, what I am saying is this- the other connotation of the word "natural", as used by people in the homosexuality debate, implies that something is "with the will of nature", or is something that occurs/ 'comes to be' regardless of choice

As in skyscrapers and genetic modifications 'came to be' in order to efficiently house urban businesses that allow our society to function. And people see homosexuality as something that didnt 'come to be' because it serves no role in society

And I'm saying it is natural, because if it is a result of formative upbringing or early child development, and influence by culture, then it is inherently a part of human nature, and therefore within the scope of being purposeful



That might be poorly argued idk. I don't debate usually

I agree with what you're saying, but:

you're arguing connotation, I'm arguing definition. connotations are subjective, I'm talking in terms of universal acceptance.

It may be a "natural" inclination for humans to build and organize how we did, but that doesn't make the actual constructs natural. As opposed to ant colonies, which are built in conjunction with natural resources, our constructions are built on top of nature in a way that prevents coexistence. Therefore, they are not part of nature; they replaced it.

[VividEnds]

Originally Posted by oats

I agree with what you're saying, but:

you're arguing connotation, I'm arguing definition. connotations are subjective, I'm talking in terms of universal acceptance.

It may be a "natural" inclination for humans to build and organize how we did, but that doesn't make the actual constructs natural. As opposed to ant colonies, which are built in conjunction with natural resources, our constructions are built on top of nature in a way that prevents coexistence. Therefore, they are not part of nature; they replaced it.

Which constructions? Buildings, yes, but most habitats of animals are exclusive.

There are entire ecosystems within cities and especially towns, deer live in our parks and our backyards. They do excavate and remove nature, initially, but nature eventually comes back and enjoys a symbiotic relationship with humans. Even in the densest of constructions such as Mexico DF, Tokyo, and NYC, animals and nature are not removed or gotten rid of

Ants have to venture forth from their colonies to retrieve resources, just as we do. Our resources are processed time and time again, but we are tethered to the earth at a basic level through fossil fuels, food, water, etc