How Big Is Space?

[Witty]

That doesn't change the fact that the absence of matter is infinite tho, there will always be space.

I don't understand your point.

[Mr. J]

The final frontier

[Frank Metts]

The earth is flat

[PancakeBrah]

This topic is hilarious right now

[Mike Wrecka]

Originally Posted by PancakeBrah

This topic is hilarious right now

no rawnmo?

[dull boy]

There's video games you could all be playing.

[Witty]

Quantum physics scares the shit out of me.

Not directly connected to the topic, but it is indirectly, and I just wanted to tell someone.

It is weird tho for real bros.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Witty

Quantum physics scares the shit out of me.

Not directly connected to the topic, but it is indirectly, and I just wanted to tell someone.

It is weird tho for real bros.

applying them to astrophysics is craziness. string theory is fun stuff.

regular quantum physics are becoming a reality, which is super exciting. the sheer concept of calculating all possibilities at once is ridiculous. a tangible use will revolutionize civilization. quantum hard drives and computers already exist (though on a functional level, the modern equivalent of a 60ft 1940s DOD punch card "computer")

[Zen]

Originally Posted by Witty

Quantum physics scares the shit out of me.

Not directly connected to the topic, but it is indirectly, and I just wanted to tell someone.

It is weird tho for real bros.

Agreed. Read my post on the second page of this thread.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Zenland

Agreed. Read my post on the second page of this thread.

have morgan freeman explain it to you

relaxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Zen]

Morgan Freeman shows up at my college all the time apparently but I've never seen him. Forreal. But if I do see him ill tell him to explain whatever it is that you're talking about.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Zenland

Morgan Freeman shows up at my college all the time apparently but I've never seen him. Forreal. But if I do see him ill tell him to explain whatever it is that you're talking about.

He already has. Google it. The Universe with Morgan Freeman.

[uh-oh]

THROUGH THE WORMHOLE WITH MORGAN FREEMAN

but diode you are incorrect

the universe is infinite

my opinion is fact. your opinion is false.

[oats]

@Mike Wrecka it's a logical fallacy. It's like saying "all men are human, therefore are humans are men." Space is nothing. Our association with space is planets, stars, celestial bodies, etc, but those are all examples of things in space, not space itself. Space itself is the absence of matter, in the same way that cold itself is not a force, but an absence of heat.

So let's work under the assumption that space is infinite. The error is: since "nothing" (space) is infinite, the potential for things (matter) must also be infinite.

The problem with that thinking is, at this point, our understanding of the physical universe is that matter can't be created or destroyed, which means there is a finite amount of matter in the universe. To be sure, white holes are highly theoretical, so we're operating under things that have a legitimate amount of evidence. This notion could change, but as of now, conservation of matter is considered a scientific law.

To summarize, the fact that the absence of matter could potentially be infinite, it does not necessitate that matter to occupy that space is also infinite.
@Zenland I didn't, but I took a number of physics classes in college and used to teach high school physical science (physics and chemistry), so I had to pass the content competency tests and all that as well. I'm no expert by any means, but I know a thing or two.

[Mike Wrecka]

Originally Posted by oats

@Mike Wrecka it's a logical fallacy. It's like saying "all men are human, therefore are humans are men." Space is nothing. Our association with space is planets, stars, celestial bodies, etc, but those are all examples of things in space, not space itself. Space itself is the absence of matter, in the same way that cold itself is not a force, but an absence of heat.

So let's work under the assumption that space is infinite. The error is: since "nothing" (space) is infinite, the potential for things (matter) must also be infinite.

The problem with that thinking is, at this point, our understanding of the physical universe is that matter can't be created or destroyed, which means there is a finite amount of matter in the universe. To be sure, white holes are highly theoretical, so we're operating under things that have a legitimate amount of evidence. This notion could change, but as of now, conservation of matter is considered a scientific law.

To summarize, the fact that the absence of matter could potentially be infinite, it does not necessitate that matter to occupy that space is also infinite.
@Zenland I didn't, but I took a number of physics classes in college and used to teach high school physical science (physics and chemistry), so I had to pass the content competency tests and all that as well. I'm no expert by any means, but I know a thing or two.

that's all very interesting. so you are saying that while space is infinite the matter within an infinite amout of space is finite. I have some problems with this.

if space goes on forever, but the matter in space comes to an end are you extrapolating that either

a) the matter in space is equally spread out throughout the infinite space? which would in turn make the matter infinite

b) that matter is finite in an infinite space which means that the matter eventually stops but space keeps going. which means that the space beyond that point is a total barren empty waste land going forever and forever? that doesn't sound realistic to me. it almost harkens back to the we are the center of the universe theory of the middle ages

care to keep going and explain a little further? im enjoying this conversation

[uh-oh]

how come people think black holes, are HOLES

for real tho i never understood that. a black hole could just be a rock we don't know about. that is so dense or whatever, its gravity is insane, so instead of shit disappearing into a hole, its really just getting sucked into a gravitational force beyond comprehension that warps whatever it is, and it gets pulled ONTO not INTO the rock.

its the same idea, it just cuts out the fairy tale of it being a weird hole that makes no sense unless you want wormholes and whiteholes to exist, when they dont.

but word. not even light can escape the gravity of the weird rock. so it appears to be a hole. really its just rock with crazy gravity yo

makes more sense to me

[Witty]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

how come people think black holes, are HOLES

for real tho i never understood that. a black hole could just be a rock we don't know about. that is so dense or whatever, its gravity is insane, so instead of shit disappearing into a hole, its really just getting sucked into a gravitational force beyond comprehension that warps whatever it is, and it gets pulled ONTO not INTO the rock.

its the same idea, it just cuts out the fairy tale of it being a weird hole that makes no sense unless you want wormholes and whiteholes to exist, when they dont.

but word. not even light can escape the gravity of the weird rock. so it appears to be a hole. really its just rock with crazy gravity yo

makes more sense to me

Yeah, we literally have no idea what is really going on past the even horizon.

I think we use the term black hole kinda like we use the term dark matter, it doesn't really mean anything because we have no idea what it is, how it works, why it works, it is just a loosely fitting tag for something we are currently almost completely ignorant about, we know something is there but we don't really know what it actually is.

[Anjahl]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

how come people think black holes, are HOLES

for real tho i never understood that. a black hole could just be a rock we don't know about. that is so dense or whatever, its gravity is insane, so instead of shit disappearing into a hole, its really just getting sucked into a gravitational force beyond comprehension that warps whatever it is, and it gets pulled ONTO not INTO the rock.

its the same idea, it just cuts out the fairy tale of it being a weird hole that makes no sense unless you want wormholes and whiteholes to exist, when they dont.

but word. not even light can escape the gravity of the weird rock. so it appears to be a hole. really its just rock with crazy gravity yo

makes more sense to me

Because mathematically speaking, any object or matter with that gravity would collapse in on itself and cease to be matter...which is literally what a black hole is uh-oh. By definition they cannot be matter. They are more like gravitational nexus...identifying them as matter (as far as I understand it; but I studied metaphysics, not astro physics or particle physics) would necessitate the discovery of a gravity particle. That would be the scientific discovery of the next 4 or 5 eons. Real, tangible evidence of gravitons would for all intents and purpose, render quantum theory into scientific law.

So, you would basically have to prove the existence of gravitons beyond scientific doubt, and then be able to apply mass to said particle.
The graviton is literally the last force carrier that we have to discover; it's discovery would render full fledged experiments into the unified field theory a reality.

Then again I only have the most base knowledge of this stuff.
I could have a bunch of stuff mixed up and wrong in my head.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Anjahl

Because mathematically speaking, any object or matter with that gravity would collapse in on itself and cease to be matter...which is literally what a black hole is uh-oh. By definition they cannot be matter

that dont make sense tho

if it collapses in on itself and ceases to be matter, what is it? anti matter? does it just cease to exist? i dont get it. i'm dumb tho so there is that

but it wouldnt make sense to me, if it collapses and ceases to be matter how does it still have gravity, to pull something into it, and not only that have so much gravity LIGHT can't escape it

i just dont get it, where does all that shit go? i refuse to believe in some weird tunnel type wormhole that spews it out somewhere else

or even in just the theory of a hole. if my sock has a hole in it, and my toe goes through it, my toe went through the hole and is now visible, so if a black hole is a hole, with my stoner dropout knowledge there is something on the other side, what tho?

some would say another universe, or the same universe and a different part just spewing this stuff out of a "white hole"

but white holes dont exist

its some crazy heavy metal rock that is stupid dense and thats all i can wrap my head around


i mean there are asteroids that are made up of nothing but GOLD. so to me it doesnt seem far fetched that some piece of crazy unknown metal is really a black hole, its gravity just shits on everything

[Anjahl]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

that dont make sense tho

if it collapses in on itself and ceases to be matter, what is it? anti matter? does it just cease to exist? i dont get it. i'm dumb tho so there is that

but it wouldnt make sense to me, if it collapses and ceases to be matter how does it still have gravity, to pull something into it, and not only that have so much gravity LIGHT can't escape it

i just dont get it, where does all that shit go? i refuse to believe in some weird tunnel type wormhole that spews it out somewhere else

or even in just the theory of a hole. if my sock has a hole in it, and my toe goes through it, my toe went through the hole and is now visible, so if a black hole is a hole, with my stoner dropout knowledge there is something on the other side, what tho?

some would say another universe, or the same universe and a different part just spewing this stuff out of a "white hole"

but white holes dont exist

its some crazy heavy metal rock that is stupid dense and thats all i can wrap my head around


i mean there are asteroids that are made up of nothing but GOLD. so to me it doesnt seem far fetched that some piece of crazy unknown metal is really a black hole, its gravity just shits on everything

I just told you what it is...it's essentially gravity so dense it has mass. Or it might be better described as mass so dense that it essentially becomes gravity. Like I said, a gravitational nexus. Black holes are singularities, which basically means math doesn't exist in a black hole.
Gravity is so strong that matter is condensed into a value of point mass, which is an area of mass that is infinitely small. Tiny beyond measure...quite literally extra dimensionally small. (like your penis...hoiyyoooo) As I understand it, matter is eradicated, and the mass of that matter is condensed into a point so small, that it is beyond subatomic.
The more mass and matter that is introduce, the more dense that point gets, and the further reach, the larger, a black "hole" becomes; even though the point at which that mass is concentrated doesn't expand at all.

A piece of metal of any type could not exist at the center, because all matter in the universe is made up of an atomic structure, bound together by an EM Field. Neither EM Fields, nor atoms can exist in a singularity because the point at which mass is concentrated within said singularity is infinitely smaller than either.

All of this is based on theory, because in actuality, we have no idea how the fuck gravity works. To understand, we need to observe extra-dimensional acitivty on a quantum level, and/or discover the particle which communicates gravitational force. Which is what I said the first time.