Andrew Yang for president?

[boof]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

you get that the government doesn't pay every americans wages right

sure just fyi they are the number one employer though

the government is funded by us - UBI is a government program

business' make more money when you raise wages, maybe not the ones that make their money off putting profit into the stock market, they might have slimmer margins to buyback stock and pay executives, idc, the local / small ones that grow communities from the middle out will.

hopefully you realize big reasons bezos' service is so widely used by the public is because we're all broke and few realize the destructive nature of his business model

and the biggest reasons he was able to rise to this position using such low prices is taxpayer funded subsidies and undercutting competition by operating at a loss

[~RustyGunZ~]

Originally Posted by Blue Bayou

Vote Warren

Gross

[Immolate]

who?

[~RustyGunZ~]

I registered Democrat to vote for Yang

Unless anything changes by primary time though I’m voting Bernie. Too close to not make it count towards the most viable best option.

[boof]

nice

i'm all for yang's campaign but if he doesn't hit 15 in iowa i think he's gotta dip out quick

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by boof

sure just fyi they are the number one employer though

the government is funded by us - UBI is a government program

business' make more money when you raise wages, maybe not the ones that make their money off putting profit into the stock market, they might have slimmer margins to buyback stock and pay executives, idc, the local / small ones that grow communities from the middle out will.

hopefully you realize big reasons bezos' service is so widely used by the public is because we're all broke and few realize the destructive nature of his business model

and the biggest reasons he was able to rise to this position using such low prices is taxpayer funded subsidies and undercutting competition by operating at a loss

you understand normal people start businesses right?

not every business is an evil money hungry organization out to keep people down like the us government. some are just a woman wanting to open a restaurant or a dude putting together a landscaping company etc etc etc. what gives you the right to mandate they pay a wage they can't afford?

but realistically this is gonna be a useless back and forth because i think the minimum wage should be abolished. we are pretty much at the opposite ends on this issue

[boof]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

you understand normal people start businesses right?

not every business is an evil money hungry organization out to keep people down like the us government. some are just a woman wanting to open a restaurant or a dude putting together a landscaping company etc etc etc. what gives you the right to mandate they pay a wage they can't afford?

but realistically this is gonna be a useless back and forth because i think the minimum wage should be abolished. we are pretty much at the opposite ends on this issue

because of the third section of the post you just quoted, did you skip over that? it's a policy aimed to help the working class and small businesses the most. small businesses in america have been destroyed by amazon and walmart because amazon and walmart are all people can afford, they also absorb all of the jobs and pay as little as possible. when you give the working class a significant raise they all have more disposable income, and are much more likely to choose a small business over walmart/amazon because they can afford to have the type of economic ethics that can support community endeavors instead of the cheapest monopolies. an example local restaurants will get more customers because people won't be forced to resort to fast food and can afford to eat out or spend more on groceries at their local supermarket. etc. the velocity of the money grows

corporations used to have limits. income inequality was smaller then, obviously. there's no reason that resources should be allowed to be harvested extracted or hoarded at an infinite level. we have finite resources it makes no sense. each billion accrued by an individual extracts an amount of resources that could sustain 1,000 people for 16 years(based on average income, 3,000 would survive at a poverty level). this is why the underclass grows, this is why poverty grows, it's a result of infinite growth for those in a position to continue to consolidate power and control at the top while doling out the same abysmal minimum wage for decades and cost of living continues to grow dramatically

[Immolate]

who?

[Dominate]

Originally Posted by Spleth

I registered Democrat to vote for Yang

Unless anything changes by primary time though I’m voting Bernie. Too close to not make it count towards the most viable best option.

Were you anti-Bernie or a republican at some point and have swung, or am I misremembering?

Or are you just anti abortion but lean left on most other issues?

[Dominate]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

to answer your first question, not really. when looking at our "poor" and our "wealthy" overall its how it always was, if not BETTER, for the poor today. if you are looking at strictly numbers than sure the gap is widening because there are more 0's to throw around, but money doesn't equal contentment/happiness etc. modern technology and everything else affords the poor luxuries that the poor from other generations couldn't fathom, in terms of everything from food/housing to entertainment etc.

and to the second part i think a persons wealth, in a perfect world is dictated by their worth. jeff bezos should be paid ridiculous amounts of money for creating services that people want to take advantage of and use that makes their lives better. but no single person is dictating his worth, the masses dictate it because they fund him by using his services. with the same logic the single mother who works for amazon making "only" 15 dollars an hour, is only worth 15 dollars an hour. that is the job she sought out and accepted. if she is worth more, she will work towards bettering herself and building a career where she can make more.

basically i don't believe in a government entity taking money from any citizen because they believe another citizen needs it.

i also don't believe in the minimum wage though, and don't believe the government should dictate what anyone pays their employees.

I agree that "poor" in today's America is nothing like "poor" in other places and times. But that's because there is some semblance of a government funded social safety net to provide for those basic needs like food and housing. So you do have government taking money from some citizens via taxes to give to other citizens as welfare. Is your contention that this should be abolished, or that the level it's at now is about right and we shouldn't change it?

I agree that people with brilliant ideas should absolutely make a fuck ton of money for them. That kind of incentive is what drives innovation and progress. I'm not sure if you were still talking about your idealised world or real life with the poor person accepting the lower paid job but having the option to build a higher paying career if they chose it. I don't agree that that's practically possible for the majority of people at the bottom under the current system.

Which is why I really like the UBI. It's rampant capitalism with all the benefits that attracts, but with a non-zero floor which gives people a more realistic shot at social mobility. The welfare system as it stands disincentivises people from trying to do better for themselves and is an inefficient beauracratic nightmare to administer. UBI does better on both of those fronts.

[Immolate]

who?

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Dominate

I agree that "poor" in today's America is nothing like "poor" in other places and times. But that's because there is some semblance of a government funded social safety net to provide for those basic needs like food and housing. So you do have government taking money from some citizens via taxes to give to other citizens as welfare. Is your contention that this should be abolished, or that the level it's at now is about right and we shouldn't change it?

I agree that people with brilliant ideas should absolutely make a fuck ton of money for them. That kind of incentive is what drives innovation and progress. I'm not sure if you were still talking about your idealised world or real life with the poor person accepting the lower paid job but having the option to build a higher paying career if they chose it. I don't agree that that's practically possible for the majority of people at the bottom under the current system.

Which is why I really like the UBI. It's rampant capitalism with all the benefits that attracts, but with a non-zero floor which gives people a more realistic shot at social mobility. The welfare system as it stands disincentivises people from trying to do better for themselves and is an inefficient beauracratic nightmare to administer. UBI does better on both of those fronts.

ubi is a nightmare. the goal is to make it where peoples needs are covered, meaning rent/food/utilities. its STARTING at 1k a month. the idea being that if people dont have to work to survive they can pursue their passions or whatever.

it completely disincentivises working for a living. as it stands at 1k a month, i could literally quit my job. my rents 550. my electric is around 100 my phones around 100. i'd sell my car and have 250 for food every month. i'd do nothing but leach off the system

i just feel like my views are different because im a piece of shit lmao. everyone i know is a piece of shit. people i know who are on welfare all sell the majority of their foodstamps for cash, why would giving them cash incentivize them more?

but yea i dunno, as for booth stating that if people made more money they would be willing to spend more at a mom and pops thats just ridiculous. i just bought and built a new pc. i have a ridiculous disposable income in terms of what i make vs. my bills/necessities. i didn't go to a random computer shop to help a local business, i bought everything off amazon and looked for black friday/cyber monday deals. why would i pay more for the same thing? thats retarded.

[~RustyGunZ~]

Originally Posted by Dominate

Were you anti-Bernie or a republican at some point and have swung, or am I misremembering?

Or are you just anti abortion but lean left on most other issues?

Second one

I have been a member of the libertarian party until this year

I’d say I’m pretty moderate there’s some other right leaning stuff I agree on but not much else big ticket items other than abortion just some constitutional stuff but even then not all of it

[boof]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

but yea i dunno, as for booth stating that if people made more money they would be willing to spend more at a mom and pops thats just ridiculous. i just bought and built a new pc. i have a ridiculous disposable income in terms of what i make vs. my bills/necessities. i didn't go to a random computer shop to help a local business, i bought everything off amazon and looked for black friday/cyber monday deals. why would i pay more for the same thing? thats retarded.

the disconnect here is you literally have no idea what most people in our country are like because you've only lived in a few very similar places and aren't the type of person that gets to know different types of people. other people have ethics. other people have interests they cant afford. other people would like to support their friend's endeavors but can't afford it. other people would eat healthier if they could afford it. other people would go do more things in their town if they could afford it. if that's something you can't comprehend, idk what to tell you. building a computer for as cheap as possible is not something most people care about

[boof]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

it completely disincentivises working for a living. as it stands at 1k a month, i could literally quit my job. my rents 550. my electric is around 100 my phones around 100. i'd sell my car and have 250 for food every month. i'd do nothing but leach off the system

this is complete bullshit bro. who the fuck would want to stay in their house for the rest of their life, barely pay their simple ass bills, have $9 a day for food, and no car? like wtf are you talking about? no travel? no hobby? no money if you get sick? just bills and ramen? what makes you think anyone actually wants to live like this

[boof]

its crazy that you're admitting people only work because their life depends on it, and crazier that you think that's okay.

there are countries where people work less than us and live better, despite having less money per capita, do you understand this?

[boof]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

i just feel like my views are different because im a piece of shit lmao. everyone i know is a piece of shit. people i know who are on welfare all sell the majority of their foodstamps for cash, why would giving them cash incentivize them more?

so people receiving food stamps sell them for cash because it's more beneficial to them, so let's NOT give them cash in the first place and keep forcing them to sell their food stamps... because cash will... make them want to work less? even tho they're already turning it into cash?

[Dominate]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

ubi is a nightmare. the goal is to make it where peoples needs are covered, meaning rent/food/utilities. its STARTING at 1k a month. the idea being that if people dont have to work to survive they can pursue their passions or whatever.

it completely disincentivises working for a living. as it stands at 1k a month, i could literally quit my job. my rents 550. my electric is around 100 my phones around 100. i'd sell my car and have 250 for food every month. i'd do nothing but leach off the system

i just feel like my views are different because im a piece of shit lmao. everyone i know is a piece of shit. people i know who are on welfare all sell the majority of their foodstamps for cash, why would giving them cash incentivize them more?

but yea i dunno, as for booth stating that if people made more money they would be willing to spend more at a mom and pops thats just ridiculous. i just bought and built a new pc. i have a ridiculous disposable income in terms of what i make vs. my bills/necessities. i didn't go to a random computer shop to help a local business, i bought everything off amazon and looked for black friday/cyber monday deals. why would i pay more for the same thing? thats retarded.

Word so then you’d be CHOOSING to be poor. Another guy with the same income as you living paycheck to paycheck who wants to get ahead or build something for his kids is now able to by continuing to work hard or by switching careers to something more lucrative. That’s how it should be. People should be poor by choice, not circumstance.

Which is all not to mention that the idea of working for a living is fast becoming impossible for millions of people bc of the rise of AI. All the people working in call centers, retail, driving trucks... millions of them about to experience what people working in manufacturing went through. Even IF we somehow got a lot better at implementing retraining programs (success rate for people coming out of manufacturing jobs in these programs was around 15%), new jobs in different industries aren’t being created quick enough to fill this void.

I agree it’s disingenuous to argue that the entire $1000/month is all going back into the local community but for most people a reasonable slice of it will - there’s plenty of shit people will spend money on that you can’t buy online. Eating out at a restaurant, going to movies/concerts/sports events, child care, car repairs, blah blah blah.

[Pharaohs Army]

I like the idea of 1K a month but watch, the price of EVERYTHING would rise exponentially if this was put in place.

[Immolate]

Whom?