a lie you hear about christianity

[Destroyer]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

And it's not going to ever change

if that's your belief, then I feel like you're part of the problem

[Batty]

Originally Posted by Dr Dog

Religious people by and large develop personal beliefs from religion

Peoples' personal beliefs affect how they vote

That shit harms society, considering religion is based on teachings from ancient manuscripts

If you think "oh that's only 5% of religious people like extremists" then you're not talking about religious people, you're talking about avid holy book club enthusiasts

If this were 10 years ago, that would be very spot on. We do have to address the fact that society has changed a lot since those days that you reference. If we have a Democratic president (and we do) we have to seriously consider that the tide has changed (and it has). What bothers me is that the current trend in politics is kinda like a hipster movement. The whole "change" thing, like we just want to change more so than actually considering what our endgame is with the change.

We have a black president... not only can gay people get married but just by admitting you're gay now makes you a "hero"... confederate flags are banned... the majority of folks are cool with abortion... and so on and so on.

So why are people still mad about the past if the majority of people are so progressive now?

Is there anybody here that doesn't plainly see how the oppressed could ultimately one day be the oppressors themselves?



Before you answer, consider the lessons learned through our history...

[Destroyer]

My problem is that religion is made up bullshit that's it.
nothing should ever be influenced by it because it's just stories
it's great stories, don't get me wrong, but so is Harry Potter
it doesn't mean Hogwarts is real, and certainly doesn't mean that people should organize into factions representing the four schools of hogwarts and battle each other for supremacy because they believe in the philosophies of Ravenclaw over Slytherin.
And following the Bible is equally ridiculous because it has just about as much merit, maybe even less considering its extensive edits. But, it's a childish idea the idea of a father figure in the sky looking down on us all. It's infantile thinking and I believe for man to progress into what we truly can be, it needs to be left behind and labeled as such.

[Victor]

Yeah. Being absolute is for idiots. I don't think anyone is saying religion is the SOLE factor in wars/violence.. But I think anyone who is a subjective human can agree it IS a contributing factor.


So is goverment.


Goverment=religion

Same shit. Same pros and cons.

One can fuel the other.

[Batty]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

Roy, when the cons outweigh the pros, that's how something is judged as bad

Word and trust Destro, I'd feel that if you spoke more tolerant of it and been more like "it just ain't for me personally". That's how I am about gay marriage, I have no right to decide what others should do, it just aint for me personally.

I got no beef with either side until they step too far, like I don't care if people start praying or thanking God or whatever but if they come at me on some "Imma smite you in tha name of Jesus!!", then I'm bout to shoryuken a nigga into Valhalla.

At some point within recent years, morals and belief systems in general have been replaced across the board with fanboyism. I don't think that outside of hatred or the desire to be "a part of some thing", there is much that drives the majority of people to their life choices these days.

show me the men who are willing to stand alone even if everybody else is against their point of view.

[Destroyer]

"Violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children: organized religion ought to have a great deal on its conscience."

[Destroyer]

I would gladly take the "it just ain't for me personally" viewpoint but I feel the need to answer directly to the proselytizing of Veritas.

[uh-oh]

hey guys i have much to say about all of this.

i hate when these discussions pop off when im at work tho.

when i get home i will thoroughly break down existence the human psyche and religions point of being

but for the main point of this thread you all missed, veritas is claiming abortions took more lives than anyone PARADING as being christian.

a true christian would never kill unless god himself commands him to. like abraham and his son. or whatever

a false leader like a pope cannot order a crusade because it is inherently not christian to kill others

also the organised church as a whole isnt christian.

but word ill school all you brainwashed dummies when i get home. the religious and non religious amongst THEE

[Split Eight]

Originally Posted by Batty

If this were 10 years ago, that would be very spot on. We do have to address the fact that society has changed a lot since those days that you reference. If we have a Democratic president (and we do) we have to seriously consider that the tide has changed (and it has). What bothers me is that the current trend in politics is kinda like a hipster movement. The whole "change" thing, like we just want to change more so than actually considering what our endgame is with the change.

The end game is to fix all the outdated policies and laws that aren't representative of freedom, equality, and the rights granted to people in the US Constitution.

We have a black president... not only can gay people get married but just by admitting you're gay now makes you a "hero"... confederate flags are banned... the majority of folks are cool with abortion... and so on and so on.

Confederate flags aren't being banned except in government institutions. Being gay makes you oppressed, and standing up to the adversity of being oppressed does make you brave. Not coexisting with oppression, but fighting against it and for yourself, makes you brave.

Is there anybody here that doesn't plainly see how the oppressed could ultimately one day be the oppressors themselves?

If you're implying that white, straight, Christian folks are going to be oppressed against you're out of your goddamn mind.

We're moving towards tolerance not a new majority.

OK

Personally I don't know enough about history to talk about much of anything in the past outside of broad generalization or what I research on the spot

I don't think former political stances of a Party are really relevant once the people that actively hold those positions retire

[Split Eight]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

repped

lmaaoooo

[Batty]

The end game is to fix all the outdated policies and laws that aren't representative of freedom, equality, and the rights granted to people in the US Constitution.

And thus the contradiction.

http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

How can you possibly just "update" something to the point that it violates what it was written upon?


And before it becomes just an "America" argument...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...erences_to_God

Confederate flags aren't being banned except in government institutions. Being gay makes you oppressed, and standing up to the adversity of being oppressed does make you brave. Not coexisting with oppression, but fighting against it and for yourself, makes you brave.

WRONG. Items featuring confederate flags are being banned or censored on ebay. The Dukes of Hazard was pulled from rotation and NASCAR is already asking fans to not fly the flags at events as well as offering trade-ins for American flags at events. Teams with "Rebels" logos are being edited, most notably the Ole Miss Rebels becoming Black Bears now and removing the Rebel Colonel mascot. This is just to name a few, but clearly this is a movement with some force behind it, right?

If you're implying that white, straight, Christian folks are going to be oppressed against you're out of your goddamn mind.

We're moving towards tolerance not a new majority.

If you don't think this has already begun, YOU'RE out of your goddamn mind, bro. How about a guesstimate? if you did a poll right now, how much of America do you think would actually consider there to be more corrupt cops than actual criminals out there? One man's "tolerance" eventually ends up as another man's oppression. History repeats itself, there's no escaping that fact.

OK

Personally I don't know enough about history to talk about much of anything in the past outside of broad generalization or what I research on the spot

I don't think former political stances of a Party are really relevant once the people that actively hold those positions retire

It's easy to find actual documental evidence of these things, you can bank on it tbh.

and that last sentence of yours... if that were true, people wouldn't still be bitching about shit like slavery, confederate flags and holy wars.

[Destroyer]

the confederate flag should have been removed years ago
it's a fucking flag of a treasonous movement against the current acting Union
it should be viewed as such without even taking its original or current meanings into consideration

[Batty]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

the confederate flag should have been removed years ago
it's a fucking flag of a treasonous movement against the current acting Union
it should be viewed as such without even taking its original or current meanings into consideration

sounds like opinion disguised as fact.

try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America

If it helps, I personally do not give a shit about the flag... I don't own one, never flown one, never have and never will. I personally think it's stupid...

HOWEVER, I think it is outright fucking retarded to try and tell groups of people that they can't use it or deem it offensive based on opinion over facts.

I think for some people it's historical, I can understand both sides but again, do we even consider the endgame? What does this set in motion in regards to freedom of expression and our rights?

I'd rather ban the American flag personally, it was flown in drone strikes by our Democratic president that resulted on tons of innocent deaths of middle eastern kids. These are atrocities that happened during our lifetime that we should have more of a personal feeling towards.

Too soon?

[Destroyer]

tell me how saying that it's treasonous is an opinion
it's a flag flown by the south while attempting to succeed from the Union, the Union which still exists today
it's the definition of treason

[Split Eight]

Originally Posted by Batty

And thus the contradiction.

http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

How can you possibly just "update" something to the point that it violates what it was written upon?

The Founding Fathers were almost entirely non-religious, and practiced Deism, which is entirely separate from Christianity.

EDIT: actually, according to wikipedia-
-few founding fathers rejected christianity
-few founding fathers were devout christians
-almost all founding fathers were heavily influenced by rationalism & the enlightenment
-many founding fathers & scholars were influenced by Deism

http://www.britannica.com/topic/The-...ianity-1272214

Rather than address explicit constitutional provisions, American fundamentalists often like to quote-mine the Founding Fathers in order to divine their intentions and "prove" that they actually envisioned the new state as a Christian nation. They primarily target George Washington, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, the first three Presidents of the United States, and claim that they were deeply devout Christians whose actions were to a large degree inspired by their faith.[4][5]
This notion is patently false: Jefferson's Deistic convictions are evident from his writings, and he was a high-profile critic of established Christian dogma; he even wrote his own version of the New Testament, the Jefferson Bible, expunging the Gospels of all references to the supernatural. Washington never attended communion services at his church and took great pains to refer to his god by Deistic terms like "Great Author" and "Almighty Being" in his inaugural address. While Adams credited religion in general with bolstering public morality, he was personally a Deistic if churchgoing Congregationalist and later a Unitarian (yes, the kind that eventually became Unitarian Universalism), and consistently argued that the United States had been founded on rationalist and Enlightenment principles and rejected the notion of divine legitimation for political leadership.[6][7]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Uni...ristian_nation

WRONG. Items featuring confederate flags are being banned or censored on ebay. The Dukes of Hazard was pulled from rotation and NASCAR is already asking fans to not fly the flags at events as well as offering trade-ins for American flags at events. Teams with "Rebels" logos are being edited, most notably the Ole Miss Rebels becoming Black Bears now and removing the Rebel Colonel mascot. This is just to name a few, but clearly this is a movement with some force behind it, right?

Freedom of speech doesn't apply to private entities or privately run corporations.

If you don't like the movement behind removing what is, and always has been, a flag symbolic of white supremacy- then you should probably found a corporation that's willing to deal with the public backlash of not banning one.

If you don't think this has already begun, YOU'RE out of your goddamn mind, bro. How about a guesstimate? if you did a poll right now, how much of America do you think would actually consider there to be more corrupt cops than actual criminals out there? One man's "tolerance" eventually ends up as another man's oppression. History repeats itself, there's no escaping that fact.

#YesAllCops

Bold part is straight retarded dude. Tolerance is never oppression. Can you give a single example of how tolerance is oppression?

and that last sentence of yours... if that were true, people wouldn't still be bitching about shit like slavery, confederate flags and holy wars.

If people weren't still subject to discrimination--religious, racial or otherwise-- then people offhandedly dismissing these as things of the past wouldn't seem so ignorant

Next you're going to tell me that we finally won and beat The Racism

[Hush]

it's funny cuz all the people defending the fuckery are religious/southern

[Inno]

Originally Posted by Hush

it's funny cuz all the people defending the fuckery are religious/southern

what a surprise huh.


yo what i dont get...is the brush off of the blatant hatred that flag showcases...with people saying.

but its about heritage

what heritage?

treason
bigotry
oppression
segregation
slavery


i mean yeah....heritage folk.

i wanna keep the memory alive that my ancestors where slave owning white supremacists lol

great logic guys...let me guess you got hypocrisy in one hand and the bible in the other....perfect match fellas

[Split Eight]

Originally Posted by Batty

sounds like opinion disguised as fact.

try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America

If it helps, I personally do not give a shit about the flag... I don't own one, never flown one, never have and never will. I personally think it's stupid...


HOWEVER, I think it is outright fucking retarded to try and tell groups of people that they can't use it or deem it offensive based on opinion over facts.

"The battle flag was never adopted by the Confederate Congress, never flew over any state capitols during the Confederacy, and was never officially used by Confederate veterans' groups. The flag probably would have been relegated to Civil War museums if it had not been resurrected by the resurgent KKK and used by Southern Dixiecrats during the 1948 presidential election."[26]

Southern historian Gordon Rhea further wrote in 2011 that:
"It is no accident that Confederate symbols have been the mainstay of white supremacist organizations, from the Ku Klux Klan to the skinheads. They did not appropriate the Confederate battle flag simply because it was pretty. They picked it because it was the flag of a nation dedicated to their ideals: 'that the negro is not equal to the white man'. The Confederate flag, we are told, represents heritage, not hate. But why should we celebrate a heritage grounded in hate, a heritage whose self-avowed reason for existence was the exploitation and debasement of a sizeable segment of its population?"[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...nfederate_flag

You can think it's outright retarded to deem something offensive, but then, if you're not offended by it how would you understand?

I think for some people it's historical, I can understand both sides but again, do we even consider the endgame? What does this set in motion in regards to freedom of expression and our rights?

You're allowed to fly any flag and express your rights. You're free to fly a Nazi flag, if you'd like. The first amendment affords you that right.

I'd rather ban the American flag personally, it was flown in drone strikes by our Democratic president that resulted on tons of innocent deaths of middle eastern kids. These are atrocities that happened during our lifetime that we should have more of a personal feeling towards.

Too soon?

LOL

General Obama, Harbringer of RC Doom, sitting on his throne of lies as he divebombs plane after plane into Iraqi kindergarten graduation

Fucking retarded man. Guess which regime led us astray in the war on terror?

What president withdrew troops from the Middle East instead of actively vetoing a bill that had a provision that deadlined their withdrawal?

Do you even know the civilian casualty rates of air strikes compared to drone strikes?


Do you even know anything about anything besides what you have to say to make your points seem based in fact?

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

Veritas, can we agree that if there has been even one innocent death caused by religion in all of history than that is too many?

fair?

no, not at all. That is ridiciulous and against the nature of the universe bro.

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

Veritas reminds me of my shithead stepdad who cheated on my moms for prolly like 25 years then divorced, immediately remarried and found the church. Hasn't called me in 7 years, but texts me on every religious holiday to wish me "blessings."
fuck out of here with your bleeding heart bullshit, Veritas
there's no such thing as vicarious redemption

and finally after almost 6 years the truth emerges....thank you. I understand now.