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Old 06-29-2015, 02:22 AM   #261
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@uh oh the "Jesus never existed" argument is a lot stronger tbh. I'm working under the assumption that the Bible is 100% true for this argument, because theologically it is enough to settle the debate for religious folk.

As far as scripture says, Jesus never set out to be a political activist, and never charged any disciples with political activism. as @veritas pointed out, Jesus came to save people, not to judge them, or constrict their legal freedoms. hence, christian campaigning in political realms is very much opposed to Jesus' actions per the Bible (and ironically, very un-American from a historical perspective).

I'm not saying Jesus would have supported gay marriage laws, I'm saying he would've broke bread with gay people, as he did with prostitutes and tax collectors, and gone about his business preaching the WORD.

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even if jesus wasn't against the romans themselves, he was definately opposed to the puppets of rome.
this is where things are getting conflated. he didn't actively "oppose" anyone, except for a single time when priests were using the church as a marketplace. Jesus was not a revolutionary, in any way shape or form, other than we now consider a following like that political in nature (even though, again, it wasn't).

Jesus' teachings: believe in God, love yourself and your neighbor, obey the law. All Biblical facts. Jesus never said: gay people are extra sinful, make sure you snuff out their wickedness in court rooms and playgrounds across the country at every turn.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:07 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by quaker oats View Post

Jesus' teachings: believe in God, love yourself and your neighbor, obey the law. All Biblical facts. Jesus never said: gay people are extra sinful, make sure you snuff out their wickedness in court rooms and playgrounds across the country at every turn.
after jesus would heal someone he would tell them not to sin again..
what is sin?

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The law they are talking about is the law given to them by moses.


what does this law say about gays

leviticus 18:22
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

just to let you now how extra sinful it was he spoke on it again.


Leviticus 20:13
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


in old time the Nicolaitans, I set of christians that believe you didn't have to follow the laws of moses, all you needed was love in your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself
alot of christians were deceived by this doctrine, in so much the lord brought it up in revelations


Rev 2:14-16
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

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Old 06-29-2015, 04:33 AM   #263
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not surprised to see you bringing up OT laws, which Jesus abolished (hence why you can get divorced, don't have to sacrifice lambs for forgiveness, don't have to burn a woman's clothes when she's on her period, etc). good try, though.

"for all have sinned and fall short the glory of God." I'm sure you're familiar with this one. Theologically, the purpose is to LOVE the sinner and hate the sin, not try to attack all sinful people's ways of life.

for shits and giggles, hit up Amazon books and google my last name (Stinton) and see how many Biblical scholars are in my family. guys, you won't win this, just stop.
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:39 AM   #264
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Gone @ the enclave of Stintons being a cult of theologians

I don't see why that makes what yoy say correct but I'll let u tell it.

No reply thx
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Old 06-29-2015, 04:46 AM   #265
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lol just to say that I grew up in a family of highly-educated Bible folk, went to church and Christian schools throughout childhood, IE I've been exposed to/learned about the Bible a lot more than most people. though I'm not religious at all, I like religion, and get annoyed when people misrepresent it.
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Old 06-29-2015, 05:19 AM   #266
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Cool cool
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Old 06-29-2015, 08:45 AM   #267
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Matthew 5:17 - "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:14 AM   #268
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lol just to say that I grew up in a family of highly-educated Bible folk, went to church and Christian schools throughout childhood, IE I've been exposed to/learned about the Bible a lot more than most people. though I'm not religious at all, I like religion, and get annoyed when people misrepresent it.
how could you possibly "like" religion?
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:21 AM   #269
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Many religious people are the kindest and most gentle people I have ever met in my life.

I think they are wrong, and some of their beliefs are outdated...but they are genuinely good people.

Unfortunately, there are many who are not and want to use it as a way to hurt others rather than gain self enlightenment.
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Old 06-29-2015, 09:48 AM   #270
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Plan to finish the bible this year. As it stands I've only ever made it thru the old testament which admittedly was a bit ruff.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:02 AM   #271
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Old Testament > New Testament

From a purely entertaining standpoint...shit goes down in the OT.

I've read it front to back a few times, cuz i do weird things like that.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:02 AM   #272
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niggas still going on about sword fighting and pussy grinding.




who cares, yo. 2015 - let's move on, already...
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:15 AM   #273
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16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Sounds pretty gay to me
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:23 AM   #274
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Also, Jesus may not have actually stated it outright, but the things he taught and the way he taught others to live were absolutely considered rebellious by the political leaders of the time. He called out the religious leaders, who in those days were also very important political leaders. He was in favour of an egalitarian society, this was (and still is) extreme liberal thinking and was a clear challenge to the politics of the day.

That is why they killed him.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:27 AM   #275
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can somebody prove Jesus existed?

cause I still have a hard time believing his existence.

and I'm not by any means an atheist but I'd like to see some type of scientific fact that, this man they call the son of GOD existed.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:39 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by quaker oats View Post
not surprised to see you bringing up OT laws, which Jesus abolished (hence why you can get divorced, don't have to sacrifice lambs for forgiveness, don't have to burn a woman's clothes when she's on her period, etc). good try, though.

"for all have sinned and fall short the glory of God." I'm sure you're familiar with this one. Theologically, the purpose is to LOVE the sinner and hate the sin, not try to attack all sinful people's ways of life.

for shits and giggles, hit up Amazon books and google my last name (Stinton) and see how many Biblical scholars are in my family. guys, you won't win this, just stop.
chess. not checkers. I was waiting for you to bring this up. and of course I will say wrong. Jesus fulfilled the law, not abolished it. he abolished the "ceremonial" aspect of it, such as the sacrifices of animals to atone for sins and keeping the sabbath, why? because he was the sabbath, and his blood would atone for sin, and the goats and rams were mere shadows and types. FURTHERMORE, the moral law was still, and is still very much in effect. Because according to you, he abolished the law, should we just let murder be ok? how about covetousness? Adultery is cool?

you err.

MATTHEW 19: 3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Jesus was a revolutionary. HE was a revolutionary of thought. when he comes back he will be a revolutionary in action.

now then, the real issue here is that God's thoughts on homosexuality is that it is abominable. our courts have gone against God. These are wicked rulers, who feel they are enlightened.

This will provoke God. it is one thing to go against his wishes in the privacy of your own bedroom, and he will deal with you on that, and as I said before, I could care less, because it is between you and him.

BUT, when this is made law it becomes wicked. where nationally we say that wrong is right. this is when we will have a problem.

you err. I will gladly challenge you, and defend the faith.


18

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


28

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

THIS IS THE TRUTH. NOT ONLY ARE PEOPLE DOING SOMETHING WORTHY OF DEATH, BUT POLITICIANS ARE HAVING PLEASURE IN IT.

AS i told you before, homosexuality irregardless of whether you agree with God about it being abominable, is still not what God considers marriage, and thus it is fornication in his eyes. THere is no counter for this.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.


AND WHO IS ATTACKING THEM? YOU MEAN DISAGREEING? IS THAT WHAT WE HAVE DESCENDED INTO? CALL UP ORWELL! SOMEONE IS DISAGREEING WITH THE AGENDA! THOUGHT CRIMINALS! THOUGHT CRIMINALS! YOU ERR. I WILL TELL YOU WHO IS ATTACKING GAYS. THE MUSLIMS. GO TELL THEM TO STOP. LET ME KNOW HOW THAT GOES TOUGH GUY. BRO IT IS SIMPLE: I LOVE ALL THE GAYS. I LOVE EVERYONE. HECK MY AUNT IS GAY TBR. BUT WHAT I WILL NOT DO, IS CHANGE WHAT I KNOW IS TRUE TO AVOID HURTING PEOPLES FEELINGS BECAUSE THEY MIGHT GET UPSET BECAUSE THEY ARE WRONG. THAT IS NOT LOVE. IF YOU HAD CHILDREN YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND THIS. TELLING SOMEONE WHAT THEY NEED TO HEAR. THAT IS LOVE.

MY ENTIRE POINT CAN BE SUMMED UP THUSLY: YOU ERR. GOD IS NOT MOCKED. WE HAVE PLACED OUR WICKED LAWS ABOVE HIS. THIS IS FACT.

GOOD SAY SIR.

EDIT: DEAD AT THE GALL AND EGO YOU HAVE TO BRING UP YOUR UNCLES AND THAT THEY ARE BIBLE GUYS. RIOHJAIOJEA;KLJGKLJIOAJ;IOJGK;LAJKLJBKLJR;KLJ

HEY BRO, MY UNCLE IS JAMES MURPHY THE LEADER OF LCD SOUNDSYSTEM...THAT MEANS YOU WILL NEVER BEAT ME AT RECORDING AWESOME AMBIENT GROOVES. DEAD.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:41 AM   #277
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@Witty the chistianese word is that Jesus "fulfilled" the laws of Moses, but I went with abolish since I figured it would be more resonant. Good on you for picking up on that though.
@Destroyer my dad is a pastor, and I grew up seeing the ins and outs of church in a pretty thorough way. If anyone should have a grudge against the church, it's someone like me. But I can honestly say that my dads church is one of the most positive places I've ever been to, and the members are genuine, humble people. Religion has been a vehicle to improve their lives in meaningful ways, I got nothing against that.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:43 AM   #278
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can somebody prove Jesus existed?

cause I still have a hard time believing his existence.

and I'm not by any means an atheist but I'd like to see some type of scientific fact that, this man they call the son of GOD existed.
There is very little evidence to support his existence, so it is almost impossible to prove.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:43 AM   #279
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Lol @ Veritas for nitpicking something that I simultaneously and readily explained my purposeful intent of changing. You're a fun troll, V, and I appreciate your presence here. But I no longer have the desire to go back and forth with you.
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Old 06-29-2015, 10:50 AM   #280
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he's not the troll.. religion is. hes the victim
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