Alright here's my pseudo-philosophical thought: I don't believe in truly 'free' will

[Sharp]

In a traditional sense, at least. And this isn't any predestination stuff, I'm still pretty squarely an atheist. I was given this idea by a friend about a year ago and came around to it a few months back.

Basically, the crux of the idea is that everything that would guide your decisions is already set. Who you are as a decision maker is determined mostly by who you are as a person in the moment, built on past experiences and your personality, and grows mostly due to external stimuli, none of which you can really control. Your reaction to those external stimuli are based on the other factors (which, again, are out of your control). All this put together means you (and by extension, your actions) are more or less set in stone

have fun with this

or don't

it's apparently not really up to us


tldr

[Qualm]

This is basically just the same as people who believe that there are infinite universes with an infinite number of timelines, and that time being viewed as the present/past is just your perspective since everything is all happening at once. You’re experiencing a single timeline where all the outcomes have already been determined, and an infinite number of sharps are all on their own timelines making different decisions. I wouldn’t call it pseudointellectualism since there’s plenty of physicists who are working to prove this, but obviously it doesn’t have nearly as much conclusive evidence for it as something like evolution. Good post

[Elemental P]

Originally Posted by Qualm

This is basically just the same as people who believe that there are infinite universes with an infinite number of timelines, and that time being viewed as the present/past is just your perspective since everything is all happening at once. You’re experiencing a single timeline where all the outcomes have already been determined, and an infinite number of sharps are all on their own timelines making different decisions. I wouldn’t call it pseudointellectualism since there’s plenty of physicists who are working to prove this, but obviously it doesn’t have nearly as much conclusive evidence for it as something like evolution. Good post

The multi verse theory basically opposes this. Same idea with viewing a photon, it needs an observer in order to see where it's possibly going. Not going to get all deep and shit about this because people on this site are pretty linerar thinking anyway

[Ghost1]

Don't blame the site for your lack of depth

[uh-oh]

i think this is another thing sam harris espouses to tie it into the other thread

i don't buy it but i get it. its mainly the contrarian in me. like FUCK THAT i'll stab myself right now. but then i think well maybe i was predestined to be that big of an asshole to stab myself to try and prove im in control of my DESTINY

at which point i think hey, maybe. and then continue on with life

[Big Bolo]

I have the free will to come in this thread and tell you to stfu....fuck its like Believcees.org around this bitch lately....I'm about to create some drama just to distract you from this BS, goddamn you veritas...

[Sharp]

Originally Posted by Qualm

This is basically just the same as people who believe that there are infinite universes with an infinite number of timelines, and that time being viewed as the present/past is just your perspective since everything is all happening at once. You’re experiencing a single timeline where all the outcomes have already been determined, and an infinite number of sharps are all on their own timelines making different decisions. I wouldn’t call it pseudointellectualism since there’s plenty of physicists who are working to prove this, but obviously it doesn’t have nearly as much conclusive evidence for it as something like evolution. Good post

I wouldn't call it multiple timelines since that's very theoretical (seeing as we can only prove one timeline exists) and this is just applied to what's happening in our very real lives.

I don't know enough about multiple timelines to say how this relates to one specific timeline in those theories tbh. Glad you like it though

Originally Posted by uh-oh

i think this is another thing sam harris espouses to tie it into the other thread

i don't buy it but i get it. its mainly the contrarian in me. like FUCK THAT i'll stab myself right now. but then i think well maybe i was predestined to be that big of an asshole to stab myself to try and prove im in control of my DESTINY

at which point i think hey, maybe. and then continue on with life

I had the same thought when this was mentioned to me. But you didn't stab yourself right now. The contrarian in you is why you want to think that for the sake of a rhetorical argument, but at its core, I'm just saying that everything that informs our choices has already happened, meaning we can't really call our choices a product of truly free will

It's more of a semantics than philosophical argument

Originally Posted by Big Bolo

I have the free will to come in this thread and tell you to stfu....fuck its like Believcees.org around this bitch lately....I'm about to create some drama just to distract you from this BS, goddamn you veritas...

Like I said to uh-oh, it's the fact that everything about you that led you to come into this thread is already set. You were going to come into a brand new thread to post some of this shit because:

-personal - you're a still the negative attention lover who likes to antagonize this forum and start shit
-past experiences - your personal and boarding experience, which informs your decisions, and in some ways you're the product of our own unavoidable decisions
-external stimuli - I made this thread

So what part of that has you freely choosing to come here and make this post? You're compelled to come here and say this because of factors beyond your current control

[~RustyGunZ~]

Originally Posted by Big Bolo

I have the free will to come in this thread and tell you to stfu....fuck its like Believcees.org around this bitch lately....I'm about to create some drama just to distract you from this BS, goddamn you veritas...

in this timeline you're a stupid faggot and lowest tier boarder active (maybe ever)

[Big Bolo]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

in this timeline you're a stupid faggot and lowest tier boarder active (maybe ever)

And your the self conscious fat red headed step child that got picked on everyday...

[~RustyGunZ~]

Originally Posted by Big Bolo

And your the self conscious fat red headed step child that got picked on everyday...

swing and a miss

[veritas]

Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.

[DMS]

Originally Posted by veritas

Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.

God’s eternalness and him being outside of time is called Omni-temporality I believe. The example with the football players was good, but in this case you DVR’d the game before the players even played. Either way the players still have freewill. The most common response to this is that it’s a none-argument, because there’s know reason to believe knowledge=causation, which is what someone claims when they say free-will isn’t capatable with omniscience.

[Ghost1]

Originally Posted by veritas

Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.

Im reading cs Lewis's Miracles rn and hes discussing the nature of the future dimension being realized in the present creation in a sense of Gods eternality ..... the kingdom of god being introduced by Christ thru super natural occurences in nature alluding to the resurrection and new Jerusalem that eliminates death by merging the dimension of heaven with our universe and introduces the destruction of time as we perceive it and the rigidity of nature as an inflexible creature. Remember the future.

[Big Bolo]

Lmao wtf? Bitch you sound like the loser fucking nerd that everyone avoids at the party because your constantly talking about some stupid shit....

I thought you were going to run a tourney, focus less on this thread subject and do that...

You read too many veritas post....damn V literally effecting your brain waves, maybe he is a better troll....

[Big Bolo]

Btw I'm off of work for the next 48 hrs, so I got plenty time to go back and forth with you(aka ruin your thread), fucks up? Lol @ sharp think he got it all figured out, like literally...smh

[Sharp]

Originally Posted by Big Bolo

Btw I'm off of work for the next 48 hrs, so I got plenty time to go back and forth with you(aka ruin your thread), fucks up? Lol @ sharp think he got it all figured out, like literally...smh

You missed what in saying lol

Literally just that

You have free time

You're here and posting

Everything that is setting you up to choose to do this is already set - the external parts (netcees and your employer being sick of the reminder that they made the mistake of hiring you) and the pieces of your personality that drive you to want to do that (desperately wanting the attention from us, good or bad) are already set. It's more a semantic thing, but the jist is, of course you'll be here posting. There was no other way the next two days could go

[Qualm]

Dia your boarding has gotten significantly worse lately

[GUDELJ]

@Diode can you just ban him already?

[Big Bolo]

Lol daddy he's on my side....

[DMS]

Originally Posted by Sharp

In a traditional sense, at least. And this isn't any predestination stuff, I'm still pretty squarely an atheist. I was given this idea by a friend about a year ago and came around to it a few months back.

Basically, the crux of the idea is that everything that would guide your decisions is already set. Who you are as a decision maker is determined mostly by who you are as a person in the moment, built on past experiences and your personality, and grows mostly due to external stimuli, none of which you can really control. Your reaction to those external stimuli are based on the other factors (which, again, are out of your control). All this put together means you (and by extension, your actions) are more or less set in stone

have fun with this

or don't

it's apparently not really up to us


tldr

Well, our passions and our will are different. Also to have free will is to reason and have control over your physical state. So which do we not have?