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Old 01-09-2019, 04:32 PM   #41
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Read my posts lol. Summary: I am on the fence.
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Old 01-09-2019, 04:48 PM   #42
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But it's not deterministic. Think of what goes on when making a decision - every variable is already in place and your choice isn't so much a choice as it is a reflection of that



I'm a bad explainer, but I'm not subscribed to any sort of determinism. It's just nature + nurture are things that are beyond your control
If your choice isn’t a choice, but more so a reflection of outside factors which effect your decision making, the outside factors being reflected seem to determine your decision, no? If not then you could say we have free will.
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Old 01-09-2019, 05:37 PM   #43
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but yea I don't think the idea that our genetics and social constructs shape us takes away the functionality of free will. in a society of however many billion people operating with conscious and unconscious cognitive processes that we barely even understand, the theory over simplifies an irreducibly complex system.

basically youd have to say if we reset the earth to day one that every single event would occur the same leading up to the present.....I don't think our minds are so simply considered to agree with this
Oh, it's so much less grand than that. All I'd say is if you reset any decision you've made 100 times with the same conditions, you'd make the same decision every time... Which... Duh... But I'm looking at what that implies
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so what should we call it instead... kinda free will...
I was thinking 'free-ish'. I've already alerted the nobel committee

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If your choice isn’t a choice, but more so a reflection of outside factors which effect your decision making, the outside factors being reflected seem to determine your decision, no? If not then you could say we have free will.
But then you're getting into your perception of those outside factors, which is unique to you and shaped by who you already are. So those things happening I out of your control as is how you see them/grow from them
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Old 01-09-2019, 06:34 PM   #44
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in this timeline you're a stupid faggot and lowest tier boarder active (maybe ever)
And your the self conscious fat red headed step child that got picked on everyday...
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:15 PM   #45
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And your the self conscious fat red headed step child that got picked on everyday...
swing and a miss
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:22 PM   #46
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Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.
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The cerebral assassin, the molder of minds, the Omni potent being. Time transcending traveler, wisdom incarnate. Veritas needs no intro but I guess I have to. He’s not know in the battling world but who doesn’t know veritas? The guy us always original and if you pay attention to his bars, dude brings the heat.. The gawd.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:29 PM   #47
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everything happen(s)(ed) at once

time is a fallacy
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:44 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by uh-oh View Post
everything happen(s)(ed) at once

time is a fallacy
In the higher dimensions yes. That is why what I said works.
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Originally Posted by Consensus
The cerebral assassin, the molder of minds, the Omni potent being. Time transcending traveler, wisdom incarnate. Veritas needs no intro but I guess I have to. He’s not know in the battling world but who doesn’t know veritas? The guy us always original and if you pay attention to his bars, dude brings the heat.. The gawd.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:27 AM   #49
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Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.
God’s eternalness and him being outside of time is called Omni-temporality I believe. The example with the football players was good, but in this case you DVR’d the game before the players even played. Either way the players still have freewill. The most common response to this is that it’s a none-argument, because there’s know reason to believe knowledge=causation, which is what someone claims when they say free-will isn’t capatable with omniscience.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:28 AM   #50
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everything happen(s)(ed) at once

time is a fallacy
Understand the physical universe’s laws aren’t necessary, none-contingent facts.
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Old 01-10-2019, 02:27 AM   #51
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@Sharp, I lost myself fam...Don't drink & text lol.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:49 AM   #52
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God’s eternalness and him being outside of time is called Omni-temporality I believe. The example with the football players was good, but in this case you DVR’d the game before the players even played. Either way the players still have freewill. The most common response to this is that it’s a none-argument, because there’s know reason to believe knowledge=causation, which is what someone claims when they say free-will isn’t capatable with omniscience.
I was dvr-ing it AS they were playing. this is obvious.
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The cerebral assassin, the molder of minds, the Omni potent being. Time transcending traveler, wisdom incarnate. Veritas needs no intro but I guess I have to. He’s not know in the battling world but who doesn’t know veritas? The guy us always original and if you pay attention to his bars, dude brings the heat.. The gawd.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:51 AM   #53
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Here we go
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:34 AM   #54
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guys i saw willie nelson last night

man can he still sing and play

and his kid is a mean blue guitarist
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:27 AM   #55
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guys i saw willie nelson last night

man can he still sing and play

and his kid is a mean blue guitarist
Thas pretty dope fam
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:34 AM   #56
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I was dvr-ing it AS they were playing. this is obvious.
Mhm, well in your analogy, you found out what the players actions were after they made them, then knew the past before someone else did. In god’s case, he knew the future before it happened. The situations aren’t the same at all, but just because the analogies trash doesn’t mean you’re wrong.

So god essentially DVR’d and re-watched the game before it happened, thus why said that.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #57
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we need less from u

the more you are the less you are...the less we are
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My dad once had like 4 beers at a family reunion, and drove us home better than my mom usually drives.
Not saying being drunk doesn’t mess up you reasoning. I’m turning 20 soon so I haven’t had a drink ever.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:41 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by veritas View Post
Ok. I appreciate your patience, @Sharp. Here we go. I will try to be concise.


The answer to rectifying the fact that God is omniscient and all-knowing and yet we have free will is the deepest tenet of "Remember the Future."


THE ANSWER IS THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. Try to think outside of the confines of your human mind.


Isaiah 46:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Ecclesiastes 3:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.


To God, from his eternal perspective, he has already seen the end result of all of our free will choices, while also ensuring that his overall plan (i.e. His WORD) will come to pass. That is why the Bible is able to Prophecy the future as history, and it come to pass. Example:

Micah 5:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

How could Micah a prophet know that Jesus would be born in Bethelem? How could Jesus have decided where he was going to be born? These are verrrry interesting questions, yes?

Finally, observe this:
1 Peter 1:19-20 19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Here is a man, Peter talking to his future (us in these last times) about Jesus who was foreordained BEFORE the foundation of the world.

I bring up all these scriptures to try and show you that God is outside of Time, so it is very possible for him to have already seen exactly what is going to happen because it has already happened to him.

final example: imagine I have dvr'd a game. You have not seen it. I have. I play it for you....I now know everything that the players are going to do, and who wins, but the players still chose every choice they made.

I pray you read this and meditate upon it, Sir.
Im reading cs Lewis's Miracles rn and hes discussing the nature of the future dimension being realized in the present creation in a sense of Gods eternality ..... the kingdom of god being introduced by Christ thru super natural occurences in nature alluding to the resurrection and new Jerusalem that eliminates death by merging the dimension of heaven with our universe and introduces the destruction of time as we perceive it and the rigidity of nature as an inflexible creature. Remember the future.
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My dad once had like 4 beers at a family reunion, and drove us home better than my mom usually drives.
Not saying being drunk doesn’t mess up you reasoning. I’m turning 20 soon so I haven’t had a drink ever.
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:36 PM   #59
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@Destroyer - what are your thoughts?
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Old 01-10-2019, 12:41 PM   #60
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Using my free will to not share them
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