The Creationist view of the Universe

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Answer

If you're willing to admit that there is life outside of Earth, you're immediately writing off creationism, as well as every single religion on this planet which was also conceived during the times of a geocentric paradigm where everything was written and designed to be solely about humans, and their significance in the universe. At which point, congratulations, you've found logic. You're now on the same side that I am

I never said that God doesn't exist - my argument is against religion. Yes, the notion of a God and life outside of earth can co-exist

but the notion of christianity and life outside of earth cannot.

you can now return to watching dolphins masturbate

1. God lives in Heaven....he has angels..in Heaven.....this is another place....where life is. so your agrument is nonsense. This cannot be debated, you can only say you were wrong

2. Christianity is not a religion, it is a fellowship...big difference.

[Answer]

Originally Posted by ...the Munster

I honestly don't understand your logic. How is believing in alien beings writing off religion?

and also, you wrote a pretty lengthy response just now with no answer to my question within it.

a) only on this forum, where people don't read books without pictures, would that constitute as a lengthy response

b) your question is in regards to the existence of a God, which I do not confirm nor deny. And I do address this question by stating that "Yes, the notion of God and life outside of earth can co-exist"

That may not be the answer you were expecting, but it is an answer.

If the bible stated that God created the universe, and that billions of planets existed that could potentially harbor life - or if the bible even made so much as a minor acknowledgement to the fact that there is, in fact, a universe outside of the Earth with other planets that are also evolving - and they are evolving, whether or not they host life...because to act like stars don't explode and planets don't cease to exist and the creation and destruction of black holes in which gravity is so strong that not even light can escape. If the bible even bothered to notice that the earth was around long before humanity was, and that plant/animal life was around for hundreds of millions of years before humanity could evolve - then yes. I would be more than happy to say that there's a good chance that these scriptures make sense.

According to the Bible, Earth was created for the sole purpose of being the host of humans, which were made in God's image. To suggest that there could be any *intelligent* life outside of this planet, which is mathematically inevitable (look up the drake equation) if you postulate that there are in fact billions of other planets with the potential to evolve life. Furthermore, when Adam & Eve rebelled against the creator, they brought the cosmos under his curse. Therefore, if there was life outside of Earth - it would affected them as well. The second person of the holy trinity incarnated on Earth alone, took on human nature, died for the sins of those with whom he has the kinsman-redeemer relationship, then ascended to the right hand of God the Father. He took on human nature, not the nature of a martian or any other being from any other planet. Therefore, there's no way for theories of evolution and theories of creationism from a Christian standpoint to coalesce, because 'Jesus' was, in fact - only human.

But at the end of the day, the bible never even acknowledges the possibility of intelligent life outside of earth. It's really that simple. And it makes sense when you consider that it was written from the perspective of a civilization that doesn't fully comprehend the world. A civilization that thought that the sun orbited around the earth, and had no idea what caused stars. A civilization ignorant enough to believe that God spent more time creating the earth than the universe around it. That is an example of just how highly humans think of themselves. Which, ironically, was done in a 6 day period. Well, what is a day? A day is a man-made time measurement for a global phenomena...One day is how long it takes for the earth to spin on it's axis. 24 hours. Which is entirely arbitrary considering all planets spin at a different speed. One day on Venus, for example - is 243 days on Earth. Which means that if Earth spun at the same rate, we'd say it took God 1,458 days to create. You're getting a little slow there, lord. Now, if took God 6 days to create the earth, how did 6 days even pass if there was no earth to spin? That's just a silly philosophical argument - but more seriously, God would have created the Earth, and arbitrarily set it to spin in 1/6th of the time (or 1/7th if you include the 7th day) that it took him to make it. Which makes no sense at all as it is, but realistically speaking, the earth spins once every 23.93 hours. So apparently God couldn't even get the calibrations right on the whole spinning earth deal.

And you would dare insult an omnipotent being by believe that he's so fallible in the first place?

Mind you, it was a Pope who said that evolution and catholicism could co-exist, but you and I both know that creationism doesn't fit into that puzzle anywhere. And if we were to try to create a book based on what we know now that explains the meaning of life, the universe, and everything I assure you in 2,000 years - there will be countless discoveries that disprove the things we know. Because unlike religion, knowledge continues to change.





I suggest you let me finish on that note, because I promise my next response will be at least twice the length of this one by the time I'm done

[Answer]

Originally Posted by The Mind Assassin

1. God lives in Heaven....he has angels..in Heaven.....this is another place....where life is. so your agrument is nonsense. This cannot be debated, you can only say you were wrong

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and agree that Heaven is the same thing as "life", but the reality of the matter is you should already know that I'm talking about the existence of intelligent life on another planet. Not humans, not angels, and probably not green martians, but intelligent life none-the-less. You can use red herrings all you want, but I'm not here to argue about the semantics of what can and cannot be construed as "Life outside of earth"

[Urban Dialect]

there is no forgiveness of sin w/out Yashaya
you will die in your sins if you don't believe in him

do not think that u are not a sinner, nor by your own righteousness you will be found worthy to enter into the kingdom

admit you dwell in darkness and are blind and can't see nor know the truth

[Zen]

Originally Posted by Urban Dialect

there is no forgiveness of sin w/out Yashaya
you will die in your sins if you don't believe in him

do not think that u are not a sinner, nor by your own righteousness you will be found worthy to enter into the kingdom

admit you dwell in darkness and are blind and can't see nor know the truth

Since we're all sinners and sinners can't know the truth then how would I know to believe in Yashaya?

But seriously, these types of discussions shouldn't take place here. People are too dogmatic in their own beliefs and no one will ever admit when they're wrong on any point. It's a lose-lose.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Urban Dialect

there is no forgiveness of sin w/out Yashaya
you will die in your sins if you don't believe in him

do not think that u are not a sinner, nor by your own righteousness you will be found worthy to enter into the kingdom

admit you dwell in darkness and are blind and can't see nor know the truth

Lol I love it when people like you do this.

What are you hoping to achieve with this besides coming across as a pretentious asshole?

If you want people to take your message onboard speak like a fucking human, stop intentionally alienating people from hearing your 'truth' by speaking like Moses because secretly you like the fact people don't understand you, you crave that from your religion, if you worked for your God you would speak in a way that actually got your message across, that after all is the point, is it not?

Or are you just speaking to be heard?

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Answer

a) only on this forum, where people don't read books without pictures, would that constitute as a lengthy response

b) your question is in regards to the existence of a God, which I do not confirm nor deny. And I do address this question by stating that "Yes, the notion of God and life outside of earth can co-exist"

That may not be the answer you were expecting, but it is an answer.

If the bible stated that God created the universe, and that billions of planets existed that could potentially harbor life - or if the bible even made so much as a minor acknowledgement to the fact that there is, in fact, a universe outside of the Earth with other planets that are also evolving - and they are evolving, whether or not they host life...because to act like stars don't explode and planets don't cease to exist and the creation and destruction of black holes in which gravity is so strong that not even light can escape. If the bible even bothered to notice that the earth was around long before humanity was, and that plant/animal life was around for hundreds of millions of years before humanity could evolve - then yes. I would be more than happy to say that there's a good chance that these scriptures make sense.

According to the Bible, Earth was created for the sole purpose of being the host of humans, which were made in God's image. To suggest that there could be any *intelligent* life outside of this planet, which is mathematically inevitable (look up the drake equation) if you postulate that there are in fact billions of other planets with the potential to evolve life. Furthermore, when Adam & Eve rebelled against the creator, they brought the cosmos under his curse. Therefore, if there was life outside of Earth - it would affected them as well. The second person of the holy trinity incarnated on Earth alone, took on human nature, died for the sins of those with whom he has the kinsman-redeemer relationship, then ascended to the right hand of God the Father. He took on human nature, not the nature of a martian or any other being from any other planet. Therefore, there's no way for theories of evolution and theories of creationism from a Christian standpoint to coalesce, because 'Jesus' was, in fact - only human.

But at the end of the day, the bible never even acknowledges the possibility of intelligent life outside of earth. It's really that simple. And it makes sense when you consider that it was written from the perspective of a civilization that doesn't fully comprehend the world. A civilization that thought that the sun orbited around the earth, and had no idea what caused stars. A civilization ignorant enough to believe that God spent more time creating the earth than the universe around it. That is an example of just how highly humans think of themselves. Which, ironically, was done in a 6 day period. Well, what is a day? A day is a man-made time measurement for a global phenomena...One day is how long it takes for the earth to spin on it's axis. 24 hours. Which is entirely arbitrary considering all planets spin at a different speed. One day on Venus, for example - is 243 days on Earth. Which means that if Earth spun at the same rate, we'd say it took God 1,458 days to create. You're getting a little slow there, lord. Now, if took God 6 days to create the earth, how did 6 days even pass if there was no earth to spin? That's just a silly philosophical argument - but more seriously, God would have created the Earth, and arbitrarily set it to spin in 1/6th of the time (or 1/7th if you include the 7th day) that it took him to make it. Which makes no sense at all as it is, but realistically speaking, the earth spins once every 23.93 hours. So apparently God couldn't even get the calibrations right on the whole spinning earth deal.

And you would dare insult an omnipotent being by believe that he's so fallible in the first place?

Mind you, it was a Pope who said that evolution and catholicism could co-exist, but you and I both know that creationism doesn't fit into that puzzle anywhere. And if we were to try to create a book based on what we know now that explains the meaning of life, the universe, and everything I assure you in 2,000 years - there will be countless discoveries that disprove the things we know. Because unlike religion, knowledge continues to change.





I suggest you let me finish on that note, because I promise my next response will be at least twice the length of this one by the time I'm done

You are inside my brain, posting for me so I don't have to.

Thank you for saving me the effort. I am lazy, after all.

(so long and thanks for all the fish)

[detour]

Originally Posted by Answer

a) only on this forum, where people don't read books without pictures, would that constitute as a lengthy response

b) your question is in regards to the existence of a God, which I do not confirm nor deny. And I do address this question by stating that "Yes, the notion of God and life outside of earth can co-exist"

That may not be the answer you were expecting, but it is an answer.

If the bible stated that God created the universe, and that billions of planets existed that could potentially harbor life - or if the bible even made so much as a minor acknowledgement to the fact that there is, in fact, a universe outside of the Earth with other planets that are also evolving - and they are evolving, whether or not they host life...because to act like stars don't explode and planets don't cease to exist and the creation and destruction of black holes in which gravity is so strong that not even light can escape. If the bible even bothered to notice that the earth was around long before humanity was, and that plant/animal life was around for hundreds of millions of years before humanity could evolve - then yes. I would be more than happy to say that there's a good chance that these scriptures make sense.

According to the Bible, Earth was created for the sole purpose of being the host of humans, which were made in God's image. To suggest that there could be any *intelligent* life outside of this planet, which is mathematically inevitable (look up the drake equation) if you postulate that there are in fact billions of other planets with the potential to evolve life. Furthermore, when Adam & Eve rebelled against the creator, they brought the cosmos under his curse. Therefore, if there was life outside of Earth - it would affected them as well. The second person of the holy trinity incarnated on Earth alone, took on human nature, died for the sins of those with whom he has the kinsman-redeemer relationship, then ascended to the right hand of God the Father. He took on human nature, not the nature of a martian or any other being from any other planet. Therefore, there's no way for theories of evolution and theories of creationism from a Christian standpoint to coalesce, because 'Jesus' was, in fact - only human.

But at the end of the day, the bible never even acknowledges the possibility of intelligent life outside of earth. It's really that simple. And it makes sense when you consider that it was written from the perspective of a civilization that doesn't fully comprehend the world. A civilization that thought that the sun orbited around the earth, and had no idea what caused stars. A civilization ignorant enough to believe that God spent more time creating the earth than the universe around it. That is an example of just how highly humans think of themselves. Which, ironically, was done in a 6 day period. Well, what is a day? A day is a man-made time measurement for a global phenomena...One day is how long it takes for the earth to spin on it's axis. 24 hours. Which is entirely arbitrary considering all planets spin at a different speed. One day on Venus, for example - is 243 days on Earth. Which means that if Earth spun at the same rate, we'd say it took God 1,458 days to create. You're getting a little slow there, lord. Now, if took God 6 days to create the earth, how did 6 days even pass if there was no earth to spin? That's just a silly philosophical argument - but more seriously, God would have created the Earth, and arbitrarily set it to spin in 1/6th of the time (or 1/7th if you include the 7th day) that it took him to make it. Which makes no sense at all as it is, but realistically speaking, the earth spins once every 23.93 hours. So apparently God couldn't even get the calibrations right on the whole spinning earth deal.

And you would dare insult an omnipotent being by believe that he's so fallible in the first place?

Mind you, it was a Pope who said that evolution and catholicism could co-exist, but you and I both know that creationism doesn't fit into that puzzle anywhere. And if we were to try to create a book based on what we know now that explains the meaning of life, the universe, and everything I assure you in 2,000 years - there will be countless discoveries that disprove the things we know. Because unlike religion, knowledge continues to change.





I suggest you let me finish on that note, because I promise my next response will be at least twice the length of this one by the time I'm done

mathematics itself is flawed so just cuz it says something can or can't be doesn't make it a fact...can't remember what the shit is called but there's a math problem that illustrates the imperfections of our number system...it has to do with a series of deposits an withdrawals from a bank account...add up the deposits an withdrawals separately an u get the exact same number, but when u do them in the order made u get an overdraft...

beyond that, the bible never says whether there are other inhabited planets or not...it's just a question that it doesn't address cuz for the purpose it was written it's not a necessity...whether G-d created life on other planets or not is irrelevant to the question of whether He exists...I've witnessed things first hand that have given me undeniable proof that G-d is real, shit u wouldn't believe if I told u...however, the validation came after the faith, not before it, cuz otherwise that would defeat the purpose of having faith...

if u want to believe that there is no G-d then that's on u, but using extra terrestrial life as ur reason is lame...beyond which, maybe u haven't noticed, but almost every government employee that has come forward to speak about the existence of alien life forms has specifically stated they aren't extra terrestrial beings, they are INTERDIMENSIONAL beings...the bible states the spiritual world in which G-d, satan, angels an demons operate is an alternate dimension of reality...thus, these beings are not aliens in the sense u think of them, they are the angels an demons the bible tells of us...

people act like if they are a real an tangible being then they must not be the same...i.e., it's not an angel or demon it's just a being from another plane of existence...however, that's EXACTLY what the bible says they are...religion was created to oppress an enslave people, true enough, but spirituality an G-d are not the same thing as religion...if u read the bible u'll notice that Jesus spent most of His time shunned by religious figures an telling them they were wrong about their understanding an teachings of G-d...

[RichardCorey]

So...I guess everyone ITT's just gonna throw the same argument at each other like a fucking volleyball...


w'okay...nothing to see here

[King Ra.]

Interesting conversation. Carry on.

[namix]

find it within or be left without

[Witty]

Find it without or be left within.

INCEPTION.

[King Ra.]

Originally Posted by namix

find it within or be left without

Nuff said.

[Witty]

Not really tbh.

That doesn't really explain anything.

[King Ra.]

Witty you get cool points for mentioning "Inception" though. Which was an immaculate movie.

[Witty]

I agree.

[namix]

Originally Posted by Witty

Not really tbh.

That doesn't really explain anything.

the debate is carried out through our words, but stems from our ears.

all the external sources resonate with each individual differently -- based on how it rings from within. each soul speaking their own language.

so we spend time debating the paths... only to find ourselves at the same mountain peak in the end -- understanding that whatever path taken to get there was the right path.

the truth isn't learned when heard as much as it is known when felt....

[Witty]

Originally Posted by namix

the debate is carried out through our words, but stems from our ears.

all the external sources resonate with each individual differently -- based on how it rings from within. each soul speaking their own language.

so we spend time debating the paths... only to find ourselves at the same mountain peak in the end -- understanding that whatever path taken to get there was the right path.

the truth isn't learned when heard as much as it is known when felt....

Ok, you are probably correct but I can not be sure because I have no idea what you are talking about. I was lost from the first sentence.

I wish people would just talk normally, then I could learn things.

Not trying to be an asshole, maybe I just communicate differently or something.

[Diode]

please ignore anything parkinsons jk wrote, answer.

[Urban Dialect]

Originally Posted by Witty

Lol I love it when people like you do this.

What are you hoping to achieve with this besides coming across as a pretentious asshole?

If you want people to take your message onboard speak like a fucking human, stop intentionally alienating people from hearing your 'truth' by speaking like Moses because secretly you like the fact people don't understand you, you crave that from your religion, if you worked for your God you would speak in a way that actually got your message across, that after all is the point, is it not?

Or are you just speaking to be heard?

i'm speaking scripture in hopes to give a little understanding
source is john chapter 9 verse 40-41
9:40 And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?
9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.