the world without god....

[uh-oh]

religion has always been around.

religion wasnt always the guideline on how to live your life though.

in alot of societies religion was just answers for the unexplained. there wasnt judgement. i mean when you died you didnt need to stand in judgement for your sins, you just had to hope a family member gave you a coin so you could cross with the ferrymen. just one example.

morality is a human trait, you don't need a religion to tell you its wrong to cut peoples heads off, let there bodies rot, and then launch there bodies into cities with catapults.

its just wrong at a human level.

but people do it in the name of religion.

not saying religion is whats wrong. whats wrong is people. because people did terrible shit before religion. long before the crusades when the christians and muslims would trade atrocities, you had civilizations like the assyrians who would slaughter to slaughter. flay an army and cover a tower in there skins.

everyone looks at the greeks like they were a shining beacon of light. they were filthy greasy savages. 99 percent of them. only 1 of there cities and townships was "bright" and with it. athens. thats like saying america is a beacon of peace because the mountain men in alaska aren't killing muslims.

every society is savage at heart. religion plays no role either way. just my opinion.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by namix

our best scientists are also the first to admit that our science, and our advancements in the field, is incomplete...

few things are more illogical than relying on logic when we've logically proved our lack of it.

...and as the ant farm hits the wall, they opt to keep digging for answers rather than looking beyond the glass they've just proven exists.

Woah woah woah slow down lol few things are more illogical than relying on logic? That's such a twisted view, just because we don't have all the answers is no reason to abandon the logical approach, we are just great apes...we learn and we move forward. Religion claims to know the answers, science does not...science is searching for the answers and in that search has found evidence that suggests religion can not be true...religion has 0 evidence for anything.

Why would you believe something that has absolutely no evidence yet claims to know all the answers, over something that has much more evidence and is slowly but surely providing more and more answers? Things you can SEE, rather than just reading it from a boom written thousands of years ago.

[TYSON]

I am a man of god but I will admit there are voids of questions I find unanswered. Like god created everything, then who created god? Was he just a lone being before the creation of all? But at the same time the big bang theory has a void of questions unanswered also. Like how can a act of total chaos create the vast creation of such an ordered universe? Our design is so near perfect like our ability to create life thru mating and there being an perfect birth-old then death design. Both have its unbelievable theory's but this isn't about whether u believe or not instead its a question what it would be like without the presence of a high power.

[TYSON]

Originally Posted by Witty

You're connecting morals with religion, that is incorrect.

The religious do not have a monopoly on morality, we decide our morals and our laws as a civilisation and a society, those who do not obey are locked up for the good of others...this is a way in which we behaved loooonnnng before any religion existed.

The world would be the same, insane people will kill millions and sane people will try to stop them, they just wont have any justification for their killing...you seem to be saying religion stops murder and bloodshed, but if you look around and if you look at history you will see religion has been a bigger cause of death than anything else.

No people's selfish desires who manipulate religion is the cause of those deaths. Like said before if religion wasn't around human beings would find another means of manipulation to murder and kill millions. Morals would be skewed if not for an thought ever existing of repercussions of an afterlife punishment. Do u think most a scared of prison then hell?

[Witty]

I'm not writing off the idea that some higher power created the universe, because we simply do not and possibly can not know...but I am writing off the idea of an interventionist God, and I am certainly writing off the idea that any of the worlds religions are the right religion, because they have been shown not to be true on many occasions, but yeah...I think if religion vanished tomorrow it would not change peoples inner desires and perversions, and it would not stop genocide, it would not stop wars.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by TYSON

No people's selfish desires who manipulate religion is the cause of those deaths. Like said before if religion wasn't around human beings would find another means of manipulation to murder and kill millions. Morals would be skewed if not for an thought ever existing of repercussions of an afterlife punishment. Do u think most a scared of prison then hell?

No no no you are connecting morals with religion again...religion does not grant you better morals, because as you said religion can be manipulated...it is the PERSON who has the morals, not the religion and not because of the religion...religion can and should encourage those morals but it is not the creator of them.

And to your first point, I could argue that really the people doing good are manipulating the words just as much, but I will concede that you are right that people would continue to kill and murder with or without God, so how can you say having a God prevents it? People who have psychological disorders will find Any reason to kill and hurt, religion is the only reason where they can justify it, even if it is a manipulated justification, nothing else could even nearly justify genocide other than religion, there is nothing else someone could point to and say 'This told me if I kill I will be rewarded'.....you know what I mean? Good people are good people, bad people are bad people....religion has both good and bad, if you want to say it creates the morals then you have to say it also creates the immoral, otherwise your argument is soooo biased.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by TYSON

I am a man of god but I will admit there are voids of questions I find unanswered. Like god created everything, then who created god? Was he just a lone being before the creation of all? But at the same time the big bang theory has a void of questions unanswered also. Like how can a act of total chaos create the vast creation of such an ordered universe? Our design is so near perfect like our ability to create life thru mating and there being an perfect birth-old then death design. Both have its unbelievable theory's but this isn't about whether u believe or not instead its a question what it would be like without the presence of a high power.

i hear you, but the high power you refer to is one who judges you based on what you do. and he judges with a human sense of morality. but it makes sense to the faithful because humans are created in his image.

but still i don't believe in none of it. if i'm a serial child rapist who eats old ladies, im gonna end up the same place as a nun. dead. in the ground. the long black sleep.

the whole big bang nonsense makes sense to a degree because its an explosion. we just conceive time as slow moving. but if i light a barrel of propane that explodes, the energy of the fire reproduces and burns throughout each flammable particle and the energy is ever expanding. we are just the microscopic flammable particles.

people who don't reproduce, didnt have an opportunity to spread there fire.

and it makes sense because we are destruction. people act like humans are the only destructive animal, what they don't realize is every animal is destruction. tigers kill shit. plants kill other plants. invasive species etc. all life is just the fire of the all burning out the resources of the propane tank we call life

[TYSON]

Of course its biased but so is yours. I didn't create this thread to argue the belief in the existence of god but the impact of the non existence of said belief. I may have went off topic my bad.

[Witty]

Also I just want to say that your point about God has mysteries and the big bang has mysteries is kind of a false equivalency...the big bang theory certainly does ask more questions than it answers but we have visual evidence that the big bang theory happened, we have no evidence, visual or otherwise, for the existence of God. Also, the big bang theory is merely an explanation of what happened AFTER the universe came into being, it does not say how it came into being, and it does not say why...and it doesn't try to, it is a theory based on what we can see.

Sorry for getting sidetracked again lol

[Witty]

Originally Posted by TYSON

Of course its biased but so is yours. I didn't create this thread to argue the belief in the existence of god but the impact of the non existence of said belief. I may have went off topic my bad.

I think you're misunderstanding me...I didn't mean your belief i God was biased, I meant what you think would happen if religion didn't exist was biased...you can not say people have morals from religion and that's why we do good and just ignore the immorality that exists in religion too...it may be a manipulation of text, which again is very debateable because there is a lot of hate and evil in a lot of religious text, but even so the immorality exists and religion isn't stopping it...because it can't, because regardless of religion people will be good or bad, people will kill or they will not, I am agnostic and as moral as anybody...where did my morals come from?

Why am I not evil?

[TYSON]

I have to actually do some work for a while lol I will be back

[Witty]

Lol pz bro.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

and it makes sense because we are destruction. people act like humans are the only destructive animal, what they don't realize is every animal is destruction. tigers kill shit. plants kill other plants. invasive species etc. all life is just the fire of the all burning out the resources of the propane tank we call life

This reminded me of George Carlin's bit about being a fan of entropy for some reason lol

But yeah, nature, by its very nature is destruction...everything is dying all the time.

[TYSON]

Originally Posted by Witty

I think you're misunderstanding me...I didn't mean your belief i God was biased, I meant what you think would happen if religion didn't exist was biased...you can not say people have morals from religion and that's why we do good and just ignore the immorality that exists in religion too...it may be a manipulation of text, which again is very debateable because there is a lot of hate and evil in a lot of religious text, but even so the immorality exists and religion isn't stopping it...because it can't, because regardless of religion people will be good or bad, people will kill or they will not, I am agnostic and as moral as anybody...where did my morals come from?

Why am I not evil?

I get ya after reading again. I do however feel that morals have unintentionally been given some guidance from religious beliefs. I think if the presence of religious morals was not present then the line between good and bad would be skewed to but a blur line that would be more easily stepped on. I agree that I am approaching the topic at a biased angle and may have from the jump of the OP approached as such. he reason u are not evil is because your morals were most likely taught. I know that I could be wrong but if I am right and u were taught that belief of morals passed on was probably at one point in time influenced by the morals of religious beliefs. I read on the link objective posted that during the time of the Nazi uprising that Germany fell to that way of thinking during a time of a religious belief down fall. Not to say that is true but it makes sense to me.

[Witty]

Hitler was not an atheist, though he didn't speak much about religion, he did write about it, Hitler had an ideology, he had a political vision and that was what pushed him above everything, he believed he knew what was right, and he truly believed it right to his core, it was nothing to do with religion but it was also nothing to do with lack of religion because he did have religion in his life.

I agree with you tho that religion does pass on moral guidance and ethical teachings but it doesn't hold the monopoly on them, you can be a good and moral person without religion in your life, it is not the only way morals are taught, and if it disappeared, morals would still exist, our morals would depend on our society as I believe they have always done...what is moral is simply what people choose to be moral, sex with children is now immoral and wrong because we have learned and we have seen that it is wrong, but years ago it was common practice, and still is in some places...religion has little power over that sort of thing, because religion existed when that was happening. Religion has a set of morals, but it does not include all of the morals we now have in our societies and in fact it has many things we now find immoral such as slavery and human sacrifice...because it was written by the men of that time whose societies and cultures told them it was ok.

[anime_boners]

Originally Posted by TYSON

But what would this world be without any pursuit to appease god? If all thru history there was no "fear" that our actions had repercussions?

IMO this is the exact reason why man invented a God.

[namix]

Originally Posted by Witty

Woah woah woah slow down lol few things are more illogical than relying on logic? That's such a twisted view, just because we don't have all the answers is no reason to abandon the logical approach, we are just great apes...we learn and we move forward. Religion claims to know the answers, science does not...science is searching for the answers and in that search has found evidence that suggests religion can not be true...religion has 0 evidence for anything.

Why would you believe something that has absolutely no evidence yet claims to know all the answers, over something that has much more evidence and is slowly but surely providing more and more answers? Things you can SEE, rather than just reading it from a boom written thousands of years ago.

I hear you bro, I do not see religion and science at ends the same way you seem to...

I see them as part of the same 'book of life', science starting from the beginning and working it's way to the end, and faith starting from the end and working it's way to the beginning.


I do not think accepting either blindly makes sense... I'm by no means at ends with either - I think the real truths are supported by both (and all) subject matters.


From created in our creators image -- to heredity and cellular mitosis
From seek and ye shall find -- to the uncertainty principle
from everlasting life -- to energy cannot be created nor destroyed

the most limiting factor we put on ourselves on this topic is by assuming faith and science were ever at ends... they just started from separate sides of the spectrum.

feel me a little more (at least than when i said illogical to rely on logic lol)?

[Diode]

[TYSON]

I hate your pics, fag...

[Diode]

that wasn't even directed at you, pedo.