I called Veritas.

[Objective]

Originally Posted by c.d.m.

Now be completely honest: describe your average thought process as you lay in the bed awake while you know you should be sleeping

The thought process? Wow, it might start out as; ''Going to be chill af right now and not think about anything weird that starts my thought process''. Rivers, landscapes etc.. You get the deal. Then I might think about something intriguing with my friends or something morbid on the internet. Often start discussing social norms with myself, theories, physics and laws of the universe to the point where you'd think I was high if I told them to you. Sometimes things I've read in books. This might be about 3-5 minutes in trying to sleep. Cutting down and coming to terms with questions and ''philosophies'' was a thing I did with my prior therapist in order to stop the thought process and be able to sleep. I often kept asking questions; But what if, circling around the same topic until I found an answer and questioned that again etc. Trying to stop that shit now.
But when that happens I get extremely uneasy, I get the cravings to do something. I roll from one side to the other even tho' I should be tired enough to sleep. But it never happens and it ends up having the opposite effect. I get energetic. Sometimes reading a book does the same thing, so calm activities such as reading a book or doing the dishes or whatever makes me somewhat ''hyper active'' instead. As both of us know, laptops and TV's etc. got a certain light that triggers the brain to think it's daytime, but it is the only thing that keeps me active enough to keep me in a calm state. The best way for me to sleep is to put on Netflix; Spongebob or some TV drama I don't really care that much for or have already seen such as Californication. Ducktales is also an extremely nice way to go to sleep if I'm tired enough to not do anything. Basicly what I'm saying is; My body got to be 100% drained for energy before I can fall asleep and not get energetic again. Doing nothing makes it worse.

If it counts for anything I had some concentration issues in school unless the subject interested me. Far from ADD or anything like that, but still enough to label it as concentration issues. I was great in english history, history itself, society, philosophy, practical work, norwegian and spanish, but on the paper I was around B to C-. It furiated my english teacher because I couldn't concentrate on homework. I got a C in english and she said I was at an A if I had just done my shit.

Edit: @c.d.m.: I'm diagnosed with dysthymia.

Edit 2: @c.d.m.: I have considered the graveyard shift but I have NO sleeping pattern at all. Wich means that I have no idea when I'll get to sleep and when I'll wake up. Just a few days ago I had been awake for 30 hours and only got to sleep for 5. Last week I was awake for almost two days and slept for 18 hours. It's fucked up. I can fall asleep 3PM one day and 3AM the next.

[namix]

shit objective, i think i read that you lucid dream.

and veritas, you're an NLP right?

i say cut right to the subconscious, utilize your lucid state as a training ground for restful sleep.

as counter-intuitive as it sounds, remember lucid dreaming is a decision (once triggered at least). you can untrain yourself or go get a deep rest while lucid dreaming. might as well do everything you guys are talking about in that timeless state as well.

if you experience the same anxiety in your lucid state, and cannot dream about having restful sleep, it will at least help further separate and provide context of how much of the problem is physical vs. psychological vs. metaphysical.

again, just a random idea you could try independent of whatever else you guys have concluded (havent caught up on page 4 yet)

[namix]

oooh damn @veritas' thought process before sleep and your response objective.

spiritual awakening yo.

i couldnt stop asking questions until i found that the answers don't come until you stop asking questions.

quiet your mind hommie. mortality, time, - many savvy human beings try to conceptualize infinity by counting toward it when it is more likely they'd get to infinity by counting backwards from it. accept the polarity of life - the infinity with the finite - and let yourself be free.

clearly feel free to ignore everything i just said if it doesnt resonate at all - but I had very similar symptoms during my initial clicks... everything from not sleeping, to lucid dreaming, etc. -- and if other therapists havent been able to help you, it probably means the solution is deeper too.

alas - i know i'm crazy, and that is the beacon i use to ensure I am on the right track as crazy is a relative term used to describe my deviation from the pack ;)

[namix]

Originally Posted by namix

oooh damn @veritas' thought process before sleep and your response objective.

spiritual awakening yo.

i couldnt stop asking questions until i found that the answers don't come until you stop asking questions.

quiet your mind hommie. mortality, time, - many savvy human beings try to conceptualize infinity by counting toward it when it is more likely they'd get to infinity by counting backwards from it. accept the polarity of life - the infinity with the finite - and let yourself be free.

clearly feel free to ignore everything i just said if it doesnt resonate at all - but I had very similar symptoms during my initial clicks... everything from not sleeping, to lucid dreaming, etc. -- and if other therapists havent been able to help you, it probably means the solution is deeper too.

alas - i know i'm crazy, and that is the beacon i use to ensure I am on the right track as crazy is a relative term used to describe my deviation from the pack ;)

^^ the acceptance of this polarity TRULY is one of the GREATEST assets in battling depression too.

what would a valley be without a mountain peak.

[Nigma]

@namix over this last year I've become increasingly better at becoming lucid, still practicing the wake induced method to limited success, however I've also been looking more into astral projection, have you attempted this or know much about it?

[veritas]

Originally Posted by Objective

The thought process? Wow, it might start out as; ''Going to be chill af right now and not think about anything weird that starts my thought process''. Rivers, landscapes etc.. You get the deal. Then I might think about something intriguing with my friends or something morbid on the internet. Often start discussing social norms with myself, theories, physics and laws of the universe to the point where you'd think I was high if I told them to you. Sometimes things I've read in books. This might be about 3-5 minutes in trying to sleep. Cutting down and coming to terms with questions and ''philosophies'' was a thing I did with my prior therapist in order to stop the thought process and be able to sleep. I often kept asking questions; But what if, circling around the same topic until I found an answer and questioned that again etc. Trying to stop that shit now.
But when that happens I get extremely uneasy, I get the cravings to do something. I roll from one side to the other even tho' I should be tired enough to sleep. But it never happens and it ends up having the opposite effect. I get energetic. Sometimes reading a book does the same thing, so calm activities such as reading a book or doing the dishes or whatever makes me somewhat ''hyper active'' instead. As both of us know, laptops and TV's etc. got a certain light that triggers the brain to think it's daytime, but it is the only thing that keeps me active enough to keep me in a calm state. The best way for me to sleep is to put on Netflix; Spongebob or some TV drama I don't really care that much for or have already seen such as Californication. Ducktales is also an extremely nice way to go to sleep if I'm tired enough to not do anything. Basicly what I'm saying is; My body got to be 100% drained for energy before I can fall asleep and not get energetic again. Doing nothing makes it worse.

If it counts for anything I had some concentration issues in school unless the subject interested me. Far from ADD or anything like that, but still enough to label it as concentration issues. I was great in english history, history itself, society, philosophy, practical work, norwegian and spanish, but on the paper I was around B to C-. It furiated my english teacher because I couldn't concentrate on homework. I got a C in english and she said I was at an A if I had just done my shit.

Edit: @c.d.m.: I'm diagnosed with dysthymia.

Edit 2: @c.d.m.: I have considered the graveyard shift but I have NO sleeping pattern at all. Wich means that I have no idea when I'll get to sleep and when I'll wake up. Just a few days ago I had been awake for 30 hours and only got to sleep for 5. Last week I was awake for almost two days and slept for 18 hours. It's fucked up. I can fall asleep 3PM one day and 3AM the next.

Imo you need to sleep and you should invest in taking the time to find an anti depressant and sleep aid that will help you. The good think about depression is that it responds very well to medication and therapy.

I do not like that you "get drunk" occasionally. You must eliminate alcohol or else your sleep and anti depressants will not work properly

Also try www.holosync.com
It will help your brain rest even if you cannot sleep.

For therapy I recxomend you try cbt for understanding triggers, patters, and problem solving skills

I do not feel you are being entirely honest with me about your thought process

You need to sleep.

[Objective]

@c.d.m.: I'm fully aware of that. I don't go out drinking as much as my peers. Probably two times a month or whenever I can afford it. Most of my friends are drinking buddys, the rest are skaters and they're like.. Seasonal friends, haha, I barely talk to them during the winter, spring+summer = almost a daily thing or a few times a week if I'm not drained for energy. If you don't think I'm honest about my thought process, then.. I guess you don't trust me enough for whatever reason that may be. May I ask you why you think I am not being honest with you?

I have tried meditation. My mother is all up on that shit and knows it pretty well. She's entered ''hallucinogenic'' states during them and had eye-opening experiences. However, if I try that shit I get restless and it ends up having the opposite effect. I will, however, try out the link you gave me.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is what I went to with my old doc, it was his specialty and I recomend it to anyone that deals with depression, anxiety etc. It's great as fuck. Sucks that he retired because we did get progress alltho' it was a 2 steps forward, one step back thing.

I know I need sleep man. Just started a re-run of SoA. Pray for me while I chill out.

[Objective]

@c.d.m.: You can feel free to skip this TL;DR if you want to, or read it to get a better understanding of what happens when I sleep and where I ended my CBT with my doc to stop or at least slow down the thought process when I try to sleep, it's not as bad as it was when I pondered upon existentialism etc. on a daily basis, it's not that bad anymore. For example; Emmanuel Kant really fascinates me, but I've decided to not read anything more from him because I know multi dimensions, being born in pain and happiness is a myth along with pondering if I'm sitting inside an object or not isn't exactly things I should delve too much into at this point, haha.

@namix: Word, but when I figure out I'm dreaming, and get what I consider to be complete control, it's mostly because the whole world seems to be inspired by either Salvador Dali or Stephen King. Not even joking either. I've had about 5-6 TRUE lucid dreams; We're talking Inception on the beach kinda lucid dream. Building city's etc. The main thing I don't get with that movie is why the fuck it took them several years to build that city, fucking bullshit, it took me less than a minute to rebuild my own city and fly around in it. I've had about 20+ lucid dreams where I know I'm dreaming and able to divert the course of a night terror; Talking to whoever is killing people and/or torturing me and befriend them is a common technique for me to make a nightmare less morbid. Depends how moved I am by what is happening, but if it's a slightly terrifying dream I can project guns, make ropes/torture equipment dissapear, create a flooding or whatever to get away.

But word @ lucid dreaming also being the portal to your subconscious. One of the most insightful and reflective discussions I've had with myself was during my sleep. In the dream I had been out on town and I started to walk home. When I finally got home I realized that it was a completely different place I was heading at but I had the keys. There were a female person standing there that I started to talk with. Even tho' I had never seen her before she was familiar to me. That's when I figured out that I was dreaming. I literally asked the person if she was my subconscious and how far I could dig by talking to her. Her answer was; ''I'm your mind, it's limited because you know you're talking to me, but you can do anything you want with me.'' No, I didn't fuck her, yes, she was hot as fuck, my mind is beautiful fellas! I don't want to fuck with it. I did however discuss myself. Fucked up shit. I got the notion that I had little to no control over her answers as well.

When I get into a lucid state however, it's either because of night terrors as I said before, but when I get complete control it's often too awesome to just go to go sleep. It's too fun to fly around or build landscapes/cities etc. instead of going to sleep. Imagine minecraft, just that it's realistic as fuck and you can just imagine what you want to build and it's there. And I don't really know if simply going to sleep will solve it, my longest lucid dream lasted for 3 dreams in a row (I know it may sound weird, doubt me if you want to or discard it, idgaf, but if you were me you'd know I'm not fucking around), when one ended I woke up in another. A dream can surely last longer if it continues into the next.

As far as it goes to discussing mortality etc. I'm rather done with that question and I no longer fear death. Our bodies may die, but life goes on, the dirt gets nutrition for flowers to grow, worms and all other nasty creatures gets their share and that's how we pay back to nature after we die. The answer I came up with for life's meaning is simply that there is no true meaning as everything is ''fake''. But it exists and is therefore real, a contradiction that makes up for itself.
Emotions may be fake, but they're still real enough to make an impact on nature and the future of our world. Another ice age will come, but does it really matter? No. But I believe that humanity itself is doomed and I'm extremely pessimistic because I think that we as a collective need to be working together for a common goal, but at the moment the human race is going against that. War is pointless but we still have them, for what? Countries that is in constant change? What the fuck guys? Bitch, a border means nothing when the world changes itself anyways, didn't you learn anything in geography? Not to mention fights out on town, manipulative bitches etc. Either way, just like when we die; life gets to grow. I don't condemn nuclear war because the aftermath and extinction of the human race would be nothing but great for life to evolve, both in space and on earth.
But while we're here, the butterfly effect is strong. Simply being a great human being is my way of paying back to the life I am given while I am alive. Hence the reason to why I'm not suicidal. It would defeat the purpose of giving something back, and it would hurt too many people in order for the good shit in us to grow. It would be a negative blast in the butterfly effect I have chose to believe in. This is where I stopped asking questions and I'm fine with that answer.

But, as far as social norms goes and how I can utlize the butterfly effect is shit I start pondering about when I go to sleep. I am pretty much updated on morbid shit that happens in everyday life. In a week I've seen numerous deathpics, beheadings, serial killers and all that, but in a context and with a community that looks upon it as reality we shouldn't shield ourselves from. And we discuss it in a mature way. It's a way for me to understand humanity as a whole. I see all of this and take part in dusccisions along with happy news, gaming and rap. There needs to be a balance, too much of one thing isn't good if we can learn and grow from what we know on both sides of the spectrum.

Edit: HOLY MOTHERFUCKER, THIS POST IS TOO LONG. I MUST SLOW DOWN. THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH. I BROKE MY RECORD OF LONGEST TL;DR. Apologies, I understand it if no-one reads this crap. But yeah, this is how my brain works, this is basicly just the start of 5-15 minutes of trying to sleep, it's just that I wrote small bit of it down for you guys.

[dead man]

kant is dope

try heidegger

[Ghost1]

obj goin cray

[Split]

@Objective you seem to think that in order for something to be real, it must be out of our control. Why?

[veritas]

This Kant be life.

Objective....fully describe your anxiety producing thoughts.

Have you had your pituitary and thyroid gland checked?

[veritas]

Also describe your average day

[Lars]

Can I play?

[veritas]

Also how old are you? And describe your families medical and psychiatric history to the best of your ability please

[Joe Metts]

Somebody called me from here. Ain't catch a name or a number lol just a dude on my messages.

Got me feeling like Veritas.

[Objective]

@Split: It's not in our control and it never will. We don't need to be in control for something to be real, but everything that ranges from emotions to thought patterns is a product of evolution in order for us to survive. I'm having a hard time coming to terms with that belief.

@c.d.m.: Anxiety producing thoughts? Read my reply to Split. Also kinda afraid that I'll be lonely, but I know that wont happen because I got a lot of friends I consider as close and I know it's mutual. And no, haven't got that shit checked, there's waiting lists of up to to 2 years for brain scans if that is what you're aiming at. And that's people with recommendations from their doc. I've looked into it because this chick told me about and it helped her a lot tp understand her sleeping habits.

Average day; Wake up, be a lazy fuck, try to figure out shit to not be a lazy fuck and get motivated to be a working member of society again. Netflix, internet, netflix, poker, netflix, poker, ps3. If my energy is up; meeting up with friends or something. I never really plan anything, sometimes I get calls and I just head out if I got the energy for it. Don't really have a schedule when I do shit and when I don't.

I'm 24. I do not want to go into full detail on my familys psychiatric history on a public board as it involves people that isn't me. It's not too hard to find this account with some smart googling. Don't want my family on both sides to find out shit from a forum. I'd rather keep that to a minimum. However, if it counts for anything I wouldn't say that my childhood is a special case, but it wasn't easy at times either. But yo, who hasn't had a rough childhood? haha. If you want more info about things regarding family history I'll send that in a PM for the reasons stated above.

If it counts for anything: mental health has been an issue in the bloodline on my mothers side. Basicly depression etc. It might be part genetic and part real ish that I've had to deal with while growing up. Got bullied both physically and verbally for 2 years. Switched schools at the start of 8th grade after someone tried to shank me. Got new friends that I could trust alltho' I still don't trust a soul 80%.
I have no ''secrets'', when people ask me about my life irl I tell them straight up. That way people can't hurt me with facts because I don't give a fuck who knows. Whoever wants to use it against me just ends up in a bad light anyways. Middle school went fine, some dude tried to start shit, but that was the last time he did it as well. In high school I was among the popular kids. I've literally experienced all aspects that the school system has to offer beside of being a bully myself.

word @deadman...I like Sarte personally

[Objective]

Oh, forgot to reply Deadman. Word, Heidegger is interesting as well. Don't know that much about him beside of a wikipedia article. Got to pick up on this shit at a later notice. Atm I can't approach these topics with a healthy stance as I can't stop asking questions and answering them, haha. Would have been interesting if I wasn't cray' as Bags stated. You and Rawn (and everyone else) can discuss till you hearts bleed but I got to distance myself for now.

[dead man]

he's a brainchild of Husserl in a few ways. but i thought of him because he shits all over Kant's take on temporality and space. which i think you touched on..

idk

either way.. i hope you find what you're looking for @Objective. be easy man