hey veritas

[uh-oh]

so V

lets say jesus existed. in the actual world and he wasn't just a creation by the jews. lets look at the world he was born into.

in 63 BC a great man by the name of gnaeus pompeius magnus captured the city of jerusalem for the roman empire. you might know him as pompey the great. he was one of the greatest roman generals of all time, and was later defeated by caesar during the roman civil wars following the conquest of gaul. he fled to egypt and they cut his head off and gave it to caesar. this pissed caesar the fuck off, but thats another story for another day.

so in 63 BC the romans placed HYRCANUS as the king of jerusalem, and the israelite kingdom of the time. he was a high priest sympathetic to roman rule. he ruled for awhile and the population wasn't feeling being under the boot of roman rule. the king pompey displaced, ANTIGONUS had a son named mattathias, he was captured and brought to rome with his father after his fathers defeat but later escaped, and since israel was largely insignificant he wasn't really a threat, the romans let him go like fuck it.

well he went on and on about how hyrcanus (his uncle) was a puppet, first to the romans to rally the support of other jews and people of the region, when this failed, he claimed he was a puppet to the father of herod the great. he brought this news to julius caesar, and caesar was like whatever man who gives a shit as long as your shitty nation pays their shitty tribute and opens their shitty gates to our miraculous armies i don't give a fuck. the thing was however, alot of the taxation of the province was to fuel the greed of cleopatra and mark antony in egypt, so the people were like cmon wtf.

well during this period, the romans were enemies of the parthians. the parthians were a horselord civilization, they had settlements they weren't nomads like the huns and mongols and such but they were basically those guys of the ancient era. their empire stretched across the middle east and they fucked the romans up as much as they got fucked up.

well they didnt like jerusalem being under roman rule. so they met with mattathias and gave him 500 men, and basically helped him overthrow his uncle hyrcanus, making him king and high jew of jewland.

his reign was shortlived, and hardfought. the jew herod was tight with rome, and rome helped him conquer the entire region. galilee etc. and at last they besieged jerusalem. after 5 months the city was conquered and mattathias was captured, and herod "the great" was installed as king of all judea

now, sources differ on the next thing, yet the outcome is the same. mattathias was killed by the romans in a fashion they have never used against kings.

josephus, a jewish roman historian who lived a generation after wrote that marc antony beheaded him. yet, more than 5 generations after JOSEPHUS, another scholarly historian dio cassius wrote that antony had him scourged and crucified. josephus was born in 35 ad. these events took place in the 30's BC. now a thing to note is there was a dark period, after the "death" of jesus where no one talked about him. mainly because he didnt exist and jews later created him to preach a new gospel to pagan heathens, but the point being that no one was preaching jesus' gospel during the time of josephus. then, in 155 ad, in the time of dio cassius, we have talks of jesus' gospel. this is important to note seeing as this dude lived long after the actual events.

now i could go into details more, but i've gotta get ready for work sometime this morning so i will skip on and summarize.

herod ruled during the time of jesus, and the romans had a firm dominion of the region throughout the time of jesus. they were at constant war with the parthians to the northeast, and blah blah.

jesus was born into occupation by the romans. he went around preaching his gospel, and rousing the peasants. it is my belief that if he did exist, he was a simple rebel leader of an uprising to overthrow roman rule and plant himself as king of judea

when looking at his death, he was scourged and crucifed, and he was crucified between "two thieves" also keep in mind "inri" and the crown of thorns.

now the word thieves is misleading when put through so many translations. the actual word, translated back to its original writing means bandits. and bandits isnt a word that existed in latin, to the romans, they wouldve been rebels.

so when you realize jesus was crucified between two rebels of roman rule, it gets a little "huh" like. then when you realize that the only significantly different thing in his death, was the crown of thorns, you can put 2 and 2 together. the romans were mocking him.

by writing king of jews over him on the cross, and putting a "crown" of thorns on his head, and most likely crucifying him between two of his biggest military counterparts, it was a message to other peasants of the region what would become of others who to decide to revolt and gather power.

now when romans scourged, someone this simply meant they were whipped. if you seen passion of the christ, you would know the instruments. the flagellum? spelling i dunno. it was basically a vicious whip that would take the skin off you. this was such a common punishment, that they had plans in place for how it would happen. a decorated centurion of the roman legion would oversee, the scourging, and he would let a lictor know to stop it when the person was near death.

basically the romans would whip you until you were about to die.

than a crucifixion, we should all know about. it was the romans preferred way of killing people who had no honour. slaves. deserters of the army. rebels. shit like that.

it was a torturous way to die, and to have a roman stab you in the guts with a spear was a mercy to the crucified, because they would die faster than hanging there with all there weight on the stake through their feet.

it is my estimation that jesus is based on the actual jew rebels, such as mattathias, and they incorporated myths and legends into his being, (performing miracles, helping the commonest men of the jews etc) to give the jews and others under roman rule someone to gather round. jesus dying for their sins, is really jesus dying to save them from the occupation of these foreigners

they were "gods people" and they couldn't wrap their heads around why these foreigners came in and trampled them and ruled them like they were nobodies.

but thats basically the gist of it.

[veritas]

Well....why would the jews *create* someone who literally told them they were busted and wrong?

[BB da BB]

Originally Posted by Veritas the invincible

Well....why would the jews *create* someone who literally told them they were busted and wrong?

fkn peen head why wuld god create bald faggot? moustachio hates bald peeners.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Veritas the invincible

Well....why would the jews *create* someone who literally told them they were busted and wrong?

elaborate.

[Ghost1]

Dead@avy

[veritas]

Lot of unnecessary butt pain itt.

[veritas]

that the whole premise of your argument is busted. And I have already explained this to you like two years ago Jim.

[uh-oh]

explain how jesus told the jews they were wrong and busted

[veritas]

When I say the jews I mean the Jewish politicians and religious leaders. Do I really need to elaborate upon this sir?

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Veritas the invincible

When I say the jews I mean the Jewish politicians and religious leaders. Do I really need to elaborate upon this sir?

by jewish politicians and religious leaders you understand you are referring to the people the romans put in power correct?

meaning jesus had differing views from those put in place by the foreign occupation?

interesting.

[Witty]

Veritas I appreciate you.

You have helped The Fox's self esteem.

Thank you.

[veritas]

Yw.

I wish you luck in defeating bags. It really is easy. Goof luck.

[veritas]

Bro....that is the exact reason that they wuld not "create him"

They did not want his message be in spread. They did not want him to be the messiah.

Do I really have to spell this out for you?

THEY NEVER EVEN TRIED TO PRODUCE A BODY AFTER HE DIED AND DISSAPEARED OUT OF THE TOMB BRO.

Think this through. Your premise is flawed. Jesus was who he said he was and this threatened their power.

Do you really not see?

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Veritas the invincible

Bro....that is the exact reason that they wuld not "create him"

They did not want his message be in spread. They did not want him to be the messiah.

Do I really have to spell this out for you?

THEY NEVER EVEN TRIED TO PRODUCE A BODY AFTER HE DIED AND DISSAPEARED OUT OF THE TOMB BRO.

Think this through. Your premise is flawed. Jesus was who he said he was and this threatened their power.

Do you really not see?

you are failing to understand my premise brother.

him proclaiming himself the son of god didn't get him killed, it was him trying to overthrow the government. jesus was a man made creation.

i am saying that the inspiration for creating jesus, comes from the actual jews who rebelled and tried to overthrow the occupation and reclaim judea from foreign occupancy basically.

by proclaiming jesus as the son of god, and attributing qualities to him stolen from other religions, it was easier to pass on to the simple minds of the time.

him dying for their sins, was in reality him dying for their freedom.

maybe my point isn't coming across?

i hear what you are saying 100 percent tho. you are talking about the same jews i am when i am referencing those who were put in power by the romans.

all the kings put in power under roman rule were also "high priests of judea" or whatever.

look at jesus freaking out at the money changers in the temples and shit. pretty much every single story jesus is involved in can easily be interpreted as a man sick of foreign occupation, and trying to help those burdened by it.

they like every other culture levied grain and food as well as coin, so when jesus comes to town and makes a feast out of a fish and a loaf of bread he is feeding those.

look at rebel leaders throughout history, they rise to power by helping those down and out in a society, and the fat cats up top get pissed because it makes them look bad etc.

do you follow the logic i am presenting.

[veritas]

Naw bro...he didn't care about overthrowing the government he said his kingdom wasn't of this world and if it was his angels would come and fight.

You don't get it bro. I understand you perfectly. You just don't understand and you refuse to.

Why do you kick against the pricks?

[veritas]

I mean why don't you actually study the bible bro....and then come to some new conclusions fair?

[uh-oh]

he didn't say anything because he didn't EXIST

he has no place in any history from the time he allegedly existed.

he was a myth created by people who couldnt understand why their god had foresaken them. they needed a figure to rally behind and they created it. this figure was created using events which occurred in their world to people on their side. they put those atrocitiies onto that figure, and borrowed other magic and buffoonery from other religious heroes and attributed that to him as well

the bible is historical fiction.

the writings on jesus are the equivalent to me right now, sitting down and writing about abraham lincoln. i am 150+ years removed. he couldnt tell a lie and chopped down a cherry tree and was a greco roman wrestler. or was that george washington? who knows. they all had lice and terrible teeth. but me not knowing anything about him i'm going to write tales about his life and jazz it up. as a matter of fact i'm not going to write about lincoln at all. just a new guy who didnt exist, but is more exciting, set in lincolns world. and i'm going to also make him a wizard because i eat hallucinigenic drugs and drink a mixture of wine vinegar and water because the water is too tepid to drink.

thats the bible in essence.

[veritas]

So why do you ask me questions if you have already made up your mind?

Answer this wisely and we shall proceed

[uh-oh]

to see if you can present anything to sway me off my position. im trying to discuss and lightly debate the topics at hand expecting you to drop your knowledge of these things in like i am dropping mine. when you say study the bible its like me saying go study livy. instead of that i just relay the information from livy herodotus dio cassius josephus and countless other historians instead of telling you HEY GO READ A BUNCH OF BORING SHIT

[veritas]

Naw bro. You are the one searching.....even if you do Want to admit it.

I offer you sound reasoning which refutes your words yet you dire gard it because *Jesus ain't real heyuck heyuck*



So....