nicest pen in rap?

[Universe]

Even Royce knows he's not better than Em.

It's not even close to me. Em spits some corny, old ass punchlines sometimes, sure... But on a technical scale (multi's, syllable counts, etc.) he does things within these parameters better than most artists I've heard can do outside of them. It's like he handicaps himself to perfection. He sticks to his 'every syllable must rhyme' ideology and works within it, rarely breaking it to make a bar work.

There's no debate here.

[Geno]

Originally Posted by Universe

Even Royce knows he's not better than Em.

It's not even close to me. Em spits some corny, old ass punchlines sometimes, sure... But on a technical scale (multi's, syllable counts, etc.) he does things within these parameters better than most artists I've heard can do outside of them. It's like he handicaps himself to perfection. He sticks to his 'every syllable must rhyme' ideology and works within it, rarely breaking it to make a bar work.

There's no debate here.

This pretty legit tbh... But i was trying my hardest not to say Em. Smh

So stil i say Nas and Thought.

[Answer]

Originally Posted by Universe

Even Royce knows he's not better than Em.

It's not even close to me. Em spits some corny, old ass punchlines sometimes, sure... But on a technical scale (multi's, syllable counts, etc.) he does things within these parameters better than most artists I've heard can do outside of them. It's like he handicaps himself to perfection. He sticks to his 'every syllable must rhyme' ideology and works within it, rarely breaking it to make a bar work.

There's no debate here.

Eminem hasnt been anywhere near top tier since 8 mile and royce has been putting on clinics left and right for well over 13 years now. It's not even a competition, royce is better

[UPN Zuch]

Originally Posted by Answer

Eminem hasnt been anywhere near top tier since 8 mile and royce has been putting on clinics left and right for well over 13 years now. It's not even a competition, royce is better

Idk why this even needs to be reminded.

[Fracture]

royce aint shit

[kungfugrip]

Originally Posted by Fracture

royce aint shit

Hes a better rapper than Eminem

That's a fact.

[dull boy]

Originally Posted by Answer

Eminem hasnt been anywhere near top tier since 8 mile and royce has been putting on clinics left and right for well over 13 years now. It's not even a competition, royce is better

Disagree

(edit)

didn't realize Uni had gone full autistic (appreciate the heads up) in his answer.

If you think Em hasn't been at his peak since 8 Mile then you stopped listening. Justifiable, but I assume anyone with this opinion is basing it off of Encore, Relapse and Recovery.

Eminem is the top selling artist of the last yada yada and it creates a situation where a majority of his fans are annoying and largely uninformed. His fan base is part of the tarnish on his reputation. Another part is his largely hidden mental breakdown. Encore through Recovery was him learning how to write again. Personally, I love Relapse, and Recovery is him trying to blend in a more commercial or palatable sound. It didn't necessarily work for most people who love Hip Hop. Worked for the masses. The way he writes concepts since Recovery has improved 3 fold, but he's been written off.

Em's persona is a cultivated cartoon that it seems even he resents, at times. He can't compete with Black Thought from that perspective. If they battled Em wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on angles wise, but speaking strictly lyrically, Em is way better than him or Royce and it's not close.

[BOOM]

Originally Posted by Universe

Warning: I'm about to go full retard (Answer) here...

Royce is dope af... no argument from me. He is more culturally aware than Em, finger on the pulse and all that. 'Book of Ryan' is an absolute masterpiece of an album - "Cocaine" being one of the best hip-hop songs in a long while. But it was a good song because the heart behind it; the story and the chorus and how REAL it was. Lyrically, it was meh at best. And I can say that because I'm a huge fan.

But when talking about best pen game, we gotta be talking LYRICS here, guys and gals. That's the debate, not who makes better music.

So, the reason why most of you are dismissing Em is because he doesn't really "say anything" anymore... Okay, fair point. Is he out of touch? Sure. He's the fucking Howard Hughes of rap; Probably pissing in mason jars while writing bars in his notepad, growing a 'weird' beard and forcing people to get into his toy airplane named The Spruce Goose at gunpoint... But the fact remains, lyrically, he almost never stumbles, if at all.

I've looked. I've listened.

The people that think Em ain't shit also probably thought MGK won the battle they had because he said more catchy lines and personals... But lyrically he was NOWHERE NEAR Em on those tracks. MGK rhymed maybe 3 syllables once every 6 bars instead of his usual 1 or 2 syllables, and most of those were mistakes and/or broken up lazily by other words - he just got lucky in the cases where he did connect. The overall rhyme was "good for him", Em even admitted as much, but there's so much more that needs to go into a verse nowadays. Em was hitting with punchlines and rhyming entire bars, and elongating them out through rhyme schemes that created even more punchlines and rhyme schemes in the process. His rhymes give birth.

But people liked MGK's last two syllables better, so he "won"... Ain't that fucking precious.

So what's the point I'm making? Because no one is talking about MGK in the same breath as Eminem here, or anywhere.

My point is that Em has always had an insane level of detail in his verses, and it often goes overlooked because we are used to it now. Even on 'Relapse' where he had absolutely ZERO to say and even less punchlines, he still was almost flawless in multi's, rhyme schemes and syllable counts. Break down Royce's best verses - He will be off here and there in multi's because honestly he doesn't give a shit - Em does. That's why you will rarely find a bar that doesn't connect in insane ways. His double entendres are the best in the business. And his ability to keep a rhyme scheme going on for crazy amounts of time (sometimes an entire song, see 'Legacy' on MMLP 2) puts him in a league of his own. That's what also sets him apart from Thought, who is technically sound as Em over an 100m dash ('Yah Yah'), but won't compete in a marathon.

Again, I've looked into this.

But don't take my word for it, read it from the man himself.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nme...-2639098%3famp

So is Em in the debate for best ever? Absolutely. Is he as good as he was in connecting with his audience? Not even close. Is he as good as he was lyrically? Guys, he's way better.

Is Royce & Black Thought dope? Absolutely. But are they 'hide lyrics inside other lyrics like trap doors for people to find later', dope?

Nope.

Do they have Rain Man's attention to detail when he's counting fallen toothpicks on a dirty diner floor and applying that to syllable counts?

Nope.

There's levels to this shit... But unfortunately, the artist is only as good as the audiences ability to perceive what's being said. As Heath Ledger's Joker famously put it, "I'm not a monster... I'm just ahead of the curve."

It's okay to admit that the curve might just take you right back to where you started.

Originally Posted by dull boy

Disagree

(edit)

didn't realize Uni had gone full autistic (appreciate the heads up) in his answer.

If you think Em hasn't been at his peak since 8 Mile then you stopped listening. Justifiable, but I assume anyone with this opinion is basing it off of Encore, Relapse and Recovery.

Eminem is the top selling artist of the last yada yada and it creates a situation where a majority of his fans are annoying and largely uninformed. His fan base is part of the tarnish on his reputation. Another part is his largely hidden mental breakdown. Encore through Recovery was him learning how to write again. Personally, I love Relapse, and Recovery is him trying to blend in a more commercial or palatable sound. It didn't necessarily work for most people who love Hip Hop. Worked for the masses. The way he writes concepts since Recovery has improved 3 fold, but he's been written off.

Em's persona is a cultivated cartoon that it seems even he resents, at times. He can't compete with Black Thought from that perspective. If they battled Em wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on angles wise, but speaking strictly lyrically, Em is way better than him or Royce and it's not close.

Em garb tho