RIP to the GOAT.

[Certain]

Originally Posted by Bags

Flags at half mast for a muslim draft dodger tho?

Sorry sum1 had to say it.

Still big fan.

He didn't dodge the draft, though. He went to jail because he didn't dodge the draft.

[uh-oh]

he went to prison because he dodged the draft.

but lets all chill guys. he was one of the best boxers of all time, but hands down the best entertainer/athlete of all time.

lets use this thread to pay respects to the athlete none of us knew, and leave our criticisms of the human for a politics thread

<3

edit- i was sure he went to prison, i guess he was just sentenced to 5 years in prison but never actually went. was just banned from boxing for a few years and had to work the legal system to avoid going and to box again.

[Certain]

No, he didn't dodge the draft. Dodging the draft means avoiding it. He walked right into the office and refused to serve. Draft-dodgers went to Canada. Muhammad Ali went to jail.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Certain

No, he didn't dodge the draft. Dodging the draft means avoiding it. He walked right into the office and refused to serve. Draft-dodgers went to Canada. Muhammad Ali went to jail.

i ninja edited as you were posting this. he never went to prison.

but thats besides the point, he was drafted and refused service, he wasn't lawfully deemed a conscientious objector, he didnt serve in the military and was sentenced to 5 years in prison. he was sentenced FOR DODGING THE DRAFT

you get drafted, you go to war.

a draft dodger can be a coward who slinks to canada, or someone like ali. its simply not answering the call when drafted

personally i view people like donald trump as a draft dodger as well, he worked the system with deferments and shit, but technically he isn't.

TECHNICALLY by definition and by all legal viewpoints, ali WAS a draft dodger.

your personal definition and opinion doesn't make it different lol

[Ghost1]

word I agree that this discussion is in poor taste. Obama is a fucking piece of human shit for doing this tho and even giving us the chance to build controversy in alis name when he should be being celebrated.

[Aero]

Originally Posted by Bags

Flags at half mast for a muslim draft dodger tho?

Sorry sum1 had to say it.

Still big fan.

"Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. No veitcong ever called me Nigger."

- Ali

[Ghost1]

My point isn't whether or not it was right of him to dodge the draft

It's the fact that he's being shown a military honor by having the flags at half mast for his passing and he committed the ultimate offense in military conduct aside from treason

Ur quote even illustrates my point further In the fact that he'd probably not want it anyways.

[Certain]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

i ninja edited as you were posting this. he never went to prison.

but thats besides the point, he was drafted and refused service, he wasn't lawfully deemed a conscientious objector, he didnt serve in the military and was sentenced to 5 years in prison. he was sentenced FOR DODGING THE DRAFT

you get drafted, you go to war.

a draft dodger can be a coward who slinks to canada, or someone like ali. its simply not answering the call when drafted

personally i view people like donald trump as a draft dodger as well, he worked the system with deferments and shit, but technically he isn't.

TECHNICALLY by definition and by all legal viewpoints, ali WAS a draft dodger.

your personal definition and opinion doesn't make it different lol

There is no legal definition of draft dodger because the legal term is draft evasion. And yes, Ali was guilty of draft evasion. But the phrase draft dodger, during the war, was used to describe literally anyone who found ways out of service, including gay men and conscientious objectors. After Vietnam, however, the term became used for people who sought ways to evade duty without punishment. Draft dodgers were people who the government was looking for, not people who had stood and taken their penalties. Ali took the penalty for not serving —and, yes, he went to jail (though not prison). He was handcuffed and sent to jail on the spot.

Ali evaded the draft through the act of open defiance. Had he simply fled the country, I'd be much more inclined to agree with the concept of cowardice. That's no way to make a statement. Ali broke the law and the draft brazenly by staring the men of the military right in the eyes.

It's bizarre that anyone would even try to defend the draft or the Vietnam War to me, though. Do people scream about Rosa Parks' criminal behavior not being held against her?

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Certain

There is no legal definition of draft dodger because the legal term is draft evasion. And yes, Ali was guilty of draft evasion. But the phrase draft dodger, during the war, was used to describe literally anyone who found ways out of service, including gay men and conscientious objectors. After Vietnam, however, the term became used for people who sought ways to evade duty without punishment. Draft dodgers were people who the government was looking for, not people who had stood and taken their penalties. Ali took the penalty for not serving —and, yes, he went to jail (though not prison). He was handcuffed and sent to jail on the spot.

Ali evaded the draft through the act of open defiance. Had he simply fled the country, I'd be much more inclined to agree with the concept of cowardice. That's no way to make a statement. Ali broke the law and the draft brazenly by staring the men of the military right in the eyes.

It's bizarre that anyone would even try to defend the draft or the Vietnam War to me, though. Do people scream about Rosa Parks' criminal behavior not being held against her?

i'm mainly arguing semantics on the term draft dodger.

i didn't call ali a coward, i called the people who left to go to canada cowards. it took bravery to do what he did. he dodged the draft openly.

like the thousands of punches his opponents threw while he stood in front of them, back to the ropes being a G.

[big baby]

if u guise dun leave alie alone i wil oblieraete all u stfu idiyote

[Witty]

I think it's important to separate someone's achievements in their art or sport from their actions in daily life or personal beliefs, there are so many sportsmen or artists who are horrible people who happen to also be geniuses. Ali imo is the greatest of all time, a born winner and entertainer.... even tho when it came to things like his opinions on women he believed some disgusting things, how he treated his wife was horrible. I don't care so much about the draft shit cuz honestly i think a draft is an attack on human liberties and should only be used when absolutely necessary and i agree with his objections.

[Geno]

Rip. Da gawd

[Diode]

Ali was right.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a formal education on Vietnam.

Another fine imperialist mess France and JFK got us into.

[Destroyer]

I was under the impression JFK was the only thing keeping us out of Vietnam

[2tripple0]

I thought that Ali was just stripped of his titles when he refused to join the army I don't think he ever spent a term in prison I think he was just stripped his boxing titles but anyways yeah r.i.p.

[Certain]

Originally Posted by Diode

Ali was right.

Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a formal education on Vietnam.

Another fine imperialist mess France and JFK got us into.

I went to the Vietnam War Memorial in D.C. for the first time with my stepfather, who served there last year. I got so damn mad about it all. Seeing the names listed like that who died because our country, our leaders, some of whom are still in Congress, could not pull their heads out of their asses. That was without a doubt the most emotional reaction I've had at any museum or memorial.

[Kenny the OG]

@Aero beat me to it.

[Kenny the OG]

RIP to the kemetic king.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Destroyer

I was under the impression JFK was the only thing keeping us out of Vietnam

JFK got us into Vietnam. LBJ escalated it.

Nixon, of all fucking people (and I use that loosely because he was a sub-human dirt person), was the one who put the pieces in place to get us out. Mostly due to his own ego.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by Certain

I went to the Vietnam War Memorial in D.C. for the first time with my stepfather, who served there last year. I got so damn mad about it all. Seeing the names listed like that who died because our country, our leaders, some of whom are still in Congress, could not pull their heads out of their asses. That was without a doubt the most emotional reaction I've had at any museum or memorial.

The most obnoxious part of all of it was being a decade removed from the Korea quagmire.

War hawks are morons. But why should they care? Their sons will get infinite deferments for any reason necessary.