the world without god....

[TYSON]

This is no religion troll.

But what would this world be without any pursuit to appease god? If all thru history there was no "fear" that our actions had repercussions? No, I don't deny that religion has brought many many deaths but would the horror of our history be lower or greater?

Opinions????

[Mael]

Originally Posted by Booger

This should come as no surprise to anyone. Without religious maps, the divergent and competing interests could never have coordinated their forces or harmonized their diverse interests. It wasn't secular ideals that built Gobekli Tepe or Stonehenge. It wasn't secular ideals that gave rise to the Vedic civilization or built the Mayan temples and cities. Of all the maps for living, the most creative, cohesive, stable, enduring and necessary are religious maps.

http://forums.philosophyforums.com/t...aps-64183.html

An interesting discussion in the thread linked above. Covers the question you asked and a range of topics regarding the influence and/or incompetence of religion, specifically in the past.

[TYSON]

Originally Posted by Mael

http://forums.philosophyforums.com/t...aps-64183.html

An interesting discussion in the thread linked above. Covers the question you asked and a range of topics regarding the influence and/or incompetence of religion, specifically in the past.

Very intriguing link I will read fully when I wake up to go to work.

[Objective]

I'd like to say the world would be a better place, and it probably would, but when I think about it I'm not entirely sure anymore. Why?

Because without religion what could people lean back on when life gets tough? People? Friends? Family? Some people don't have these things, but a common interest, or belief, brings people together and religion does indeniable work here. Would religion have been exchanged with something else? Perhaps. Power trips would definitely still be around, they'd most likely just find another way to justify their means of war to feed their powerhungry ideals.

Not to mention that religion itself sparked a lot of philosophical debates and gave room for people to question grand ideas and pull us forward in regards of this. In a way you could maybe even go as far as saying if it wasn't for religion we might not have seen greats such as Aristotle, Kant, Socrates and Plato as much as we do as the likes of them questioning these things skyrocketed curiosity and science when the world became more open minded and modern. Would they have pondered upon the meaning of life if religion wasn't around and life just... Life? One could wonder whether psychology would eventually delve into these things as well, but it might have taken longer time as there might have been slightly less demand for proof as it would ''make sense'', and math/science might not have been at the point it is today. There probably would be focus on eternity and physics, but would Newton sit under the tree and ponder upon the falling apple or not? Would he have taken a different path as the world would have been different and have different influences on what we consider/ed to be great thinkers in todays society? Would there be someone else in his place that people would have given more attention to instead as the entire mindset of the world population would have been different taken history into account. The whole world would have been different if religion was never part of this world.

I don't know, I'm not at home and just scribbled these thoughts down... I have to come back to this at a later notice and see if my words even hold any relevance at this point. Interesting subject nonetheless.

[Witty]

The world would be the same place, if there was no religion there would be another excuse to kill people.

Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people and they would continue to do so with or without religion. Although I do think religion gives extremists something to base their psychopathic tendencies on, nearly every religion says 'believe this and nothing else, anybody who doesn't believe this is inferior' and that is a dangerous way of thinking, especially when every organised religion is incorrect.

I would like a religion free world, not really because it would stop horrible things being done, but it would stop those horrible things being justified, if there is no religion there is no justification for horrific acts, but it will not stop the acts themselves, also religion needs to go because it just simply isn't true, it can't be...and believing a lie just isn't something we should embrace.

[namix]

It's a good angle on a typical question, nice shit.

To me, even the debate in God is more about us debating what our perception of God is, without being able to effectively communicate or come to the conclusion that really we are arguing about our perception rather than the truth.


Witty brought up some good points that are often overlooked --- for just as much as religion does to minimize certain folks from doing horrible things, it also does the reverse in a world of polarity.... It allows 'divine' justification of some of the most atrocious mass-murders and genocides.

So to me, the world would only seem different for a very short while during a transition from believing to not believing --- then it would balance out again, and be the exact same as it is today.

As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end.

... so even if the world never believed in God again, they would rally around 'apex' beliefs, and "create through division" (created in the image of their creator, as we do), and whatever the most overarching belief systems are re: life/death and life after death, will have the same effect.

Thus, the only change would be in our perception that change existed, in my humble opinion.

[Inno]

The world today is less fearfull of 'god' these days.

Look around. People have become self rightous to the point
Where they dont need a god. They believe themselves gods.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Innovator

The world today is less fearfull of 'god' these days.

Look around. People have become self rightous to the point
Where they dont need a god. They believe themselves gods.

I don't think it is anything to do with self righteousness and more to do with logic and education, even if there is a divine creator, there is no logical reason to believe it, there is no evidence at all and science has disproved many things about most religions...it wouldn't really make much sense to look at that and think 'I still believe' because what are you believing other than blind faith you have been taught since birth and indoctrinated into?

It is ok to hope and even suspect there may be a creator of some sort, but until there is proof than any logical person should not blindly believe it, that is the epitome of brain washing, and I think rather than thinking we are better than previous generations, we simply live in a time when these things have been disproven and exposed to be illogical and unscientific to the point it makes more sense not to believe it.

[Inno]

Originally Posted by Witty

I don't think it is anything to do with self righteousness and more to do with logic and education, even if there is a divine creator, there is no logical reason to believe it, there is no evidence at all and science has disproved many things about most religions...it wouldn't really make much sense to look at that and think 'I still believe' because what are you believing other than blind faith you have been taught since birth and indoctrinated into?

It is ok to hope and even suspect there may be a creator of some sort, but until there is proof than any logical person should not blindly believe it, that is the epitome of brain washing, and I think rather than thinking we are better than previous generations, we simply live in a time when these things have been disproven and exposed to be illogical and unscientific to the point it makes more sense not to believe it.

10 years ago this type of talk was blasphemy.

Now its common and excepted.

He, asked what the world would br like without god.

Today is that world.

Dont question my faith your irish condom tip. ;)

[Tom Sparks]

If today, it was announced that religion is nothing but false hope and god doesn't exist

It would be an all out war and bloodshed, gauranteed

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Innovator

10 years ago this type of talk was blasphemy.

Now its common and excepted.

He, asked what the world would br like without god.

Today is that world.

Dont question my faith your irish condom tip. ;)

It isn't that world though, I wish it was....but religion still plays a HUGE part in daily life all over the world, it still influences millions upon millions of people, we now have the freedom to question it and to expose it as illogical, which is something that isn't debatable, people can believe in God but logic is not on their side, it is blind faith and that's not something I believe anyone should have in 2013...when most religion began we didn't have science, it was the science of the day...people looking for the reason we are here, that information wasn't available so they had to come to their own conclusions that were not based on logic or fact but on belief and faith...the word faith itself means believing something that can not be proven...it makes more logical sense to believe what can and has been proven, and I think people are realising that slowly but surely.

It is faaaarrrrr from a religion free world tho.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Tom Sparks

If today, it was announced that religion is nothing but false hope and god doesn't exist

It would be an all out war and bloodshed, gauranteed

Lol no it wouldn't....that HAS been announced, the majority of the scientific community has announced that, it doesn't matter because religion is based on faith, and faith gives people the ability to say 'it doesn't matter what the facts are, God transcends scientific fact or logic'

So people would just continue to believe, regardless of what was announced...because religion does not rely on facts or knowledge and that is why it is growing less and less compatible with the modern world.

[Tom Sparks]

Originally Posted by Witty

Lol no it wouldn't....that HAS been announced, the majority of the scientific community has announced that, it doesn't matter because religion is based on faith, and faith gives people the ability to say 'it doesn't matter what the facts are, God transcends scientific fact or logic'

So people would just continue to believe, regardless of what was announced...because religion does not rely on facts or knowledge and that is why it is growing less and less compatible with the modern world.

U tell that to th dudes in the middle east who kill for their god

[Witty]

Originally Posted by Tom Sparks

U tell that to th dudes in the middle east who kill for their god

...what?

I think you misunderstood my post.

[Witty]

What I said was just because someone 'announced' God doesn't exist, wouldn't mean shit...because their faith dictates that no logic is required, it is not relevant...they would just continue to believe what they believe....and that's why religion can not be placed on the same level as science, science is about facts and evidence, religion is about faith and belief in place of logic....somebody announcing something would do nothing to kill that faith, they would just say 'God knows better'...and continue to believe what they believe. Even if there was indisputable evidence that there was no creator of any sort, I think religion will still exist.

Your point that lots of Muslims kill for their God is true, but how is it relevant to your original post?

[TYSON]

Originally Posted by Tom Sparks

If today, it was announced that religion is nothing but false hope and god doesn't exist

It would be an all out war and bloodshed, gauranteed

I believe this would happen if done now.

I had a whole paragraph written and then dropped my phone and lost it all and too agged to write another right now.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by TYSON

I believe this would happen if done now.

I had a whole paragraph written and then dropped my phone and lost it all and too agged to write another right now.

It wouldn't happen tho...nobody would believe it so there would be no reason for it to happen.

You could show them indisputable evidence and it would not kill their faith.

[TYSON]

Is that a bad thing? Believe it our not I think it does more good then harm. If done now their would be bloodshed cause it puts more power behind right and wrong. If the belief never existed I think there would be a drastic change in society because life would be just live and die. I think selfish needs would trump all. In the early days it would have been total chaos but we would have learned thru history.

[namix]

our best scientists are also the first to admit that our science, and our advancements in the field, is incomplete...

few things are more illogical than relying on logic when we've logically proved our lack of it.

...and as the ant farm hits the wall, they opt to keep digging for answers rather than looking beyond the glass they've just proven exists.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by TYSON

Is that a bad thing? Believe it our not I think it does more good then harm. If done now their would be bloodshed cause it puts more power behind right and wrong. If the belief never existed I think there would be a drastic change in society because life would be just live and die. I think selfish needs would trump all. In the early days it would have been total chaos but we would have learned thru history.

You're connecting morals with religion, that is incorrect.

The religious do not have a monopoly on morality, we decide our morals and our laws as a civilisation and a society, those who do not obey are locked up for the good of others...this is a way in which we behaved loooonnnng before any religion existed.

The world would be the same, insane people will kill millions and sane people will try to stop them, they just wont have any justification for their killing...you seem to be saying religion stops murder and bloodshed, but if you look around and if you look at history you will see religion has been a bigger cause of death than anything else.