Why are backpackers so angry when hip hop artists sell well?!

[ill nik-A]

Originally Posted by dull boy

The high esteem you hold your net rep in is adorable.

Isn't it? How's ur antibullism campaign going

Hail faggot

[dead man]

uh oh makes a really good point. i think the painter's analogy actually holds water in this context.

art is art, business is business

thread is stupid

[Inno]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

backpackers are mad at dudes like jay z because they can't make a project that would appeal to the masses like jay can

they are forever destined to have a small minority of fans

its like if one dude was a painter, who painted everything super realistic and technical. and then another guy is a painter, who doesnt go as indepth in the realism of it, but makes a more visually appealing painting.

the guy with the more visually appealing painting is gonna sell more paintings. the dude who put all his time and energy into painting a picture of a building that looks like a photo gets butthurt. he looks at this other simple painting thats outselling him, and he's like wtf, anyone can do that.

but anyone can't. because if he tried to do that he would fail.

the same way jay z would fail if he tried to put out a talib kweli album

Doesnt this point to the audience more than anythimg?


So basically the more easy to apeal painting gets attention...the ome done
With les effort and commitment gets praised...while the person who worked
Hard spent time detailimg every line and every color gets pushed to the side.

So effectively. ..the hard worker worked hard just so some one
Who half assed it can take the glory.

Shit sounds fucked man lol

[Certain]

Originally Posted by Innovator

Doesnt this point to the audience more than anythimg?

So basically the more easy to apeal painting gets attention...the ome done
With les effort and commitment gets praised...while the person who worked
Hard spent time detailimg every line and every color gets pushed to the side.

So effectively. ..the hard worker worked hard just so some one
Who half assed it can take the glory.

Shit sounds fucked man lol

It ain't like that.



It's not easy to make something with mass appeal. But it's also not easy to make something that intellectually matters. These are difficult things. Becoming a career rapper is not easy (unless you have friends in high places who carry your ass; right, Cappadonna?).

So when Wiz Khalifa drops his next banger and you think to yourself, "I could write something way better than that," you're looking at it wrong. You (assumingly) don't have the charisma to pull off what Wiz Khalifa is doing. You don't have the swagger or the understanding of what's going to work.

It's the same shit across all genres. Max Martin, the guy who wrote a lot of the biggest boy band songs of the late 1990s (Backstreet Boys, *NSYNC, Britney Spears, etc.), is a fucking genius for his dynamic understanding of the mainstream market. But his songs on paper read like they were written in crayon by a 12-year-old girl. That's kind of the point. No one did it better than him at the time, in that genre.

Now, in order to make music that permeates pop culture in such a way that it has real staying power, you have to find a balance. Jay Z did that better than anyone ever. That's why he gets that title as the best ever, because he reached almost everyone who would ever listen to rap (and some people who wouldn't) and made music that can stand on its skill ("Meet the Parents," "D'Evils," "Public Service Announcement," etc.) and music that just bangs for the common folk ("Empire State of Mind," "Big Pimpin'," "99 Problems," etc.). And on top of that, unlike Notorious B.I.G. or 2Pac (though it's easy to say they would have, there's no real proof), he did it for years. That is not an easy thing to do.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Innovator

Doesnt this point to the audience more than anythimg?


So basically the more easy to apeal painting gets attention...the ome done
With les effort and commitment gets praised...while the person who worked
Hard spent time detailimg every line and every color gets pushed to the side.

So effectively. ..the hard worker worked hard just so some one
Who half assed it can take the glory.

Shit sounds fucked man lol

making the more visually appealing painting is just as difficult as making the detailed realistic painting. its just different skillsets at play.

on websites like these, and with hip hop fans in general, who try to participate in the hip hop culture, they want to be real in depth

the same way if i wanted to be a painter, when i pick up a paint brush i'm gonna try and paint something that looks real. so when i inevitably fail, im gonna look at those painters who can paint realistically, and admire them for being able to do something that i can't.

but those same painters would never be able to dumb down there paintings in a way that the masses would like it like the other guy can.

because the same effort he put into making those paintings, the other guy put into making his paintings seem effortless

i think im too deep in metaphor land so let me simplify it.

it is just as difficult to make a jay z record as it is to make an underground acclaimed hip hop record. none of them could everrrrr make a blueprint. and jay z could never make an underground classic.

they both take ridiculous skill, and in my opinion it takes more skill to make a commercially successful project, than it does to make an underground classic

the people i like blend both worlds. to me its just as corny to like gucci mane as it is to like aesop rock.

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Certain Serpent

It ain't like that.



It's not easy to make something with mass appeal. But it's also not easy to make something that intellectually matters. These are difficult things. Becoming a career rapper is not easy (unless you have friends in high places who carry your ass; right, Cappadonna?).

So when Wiz Khalifa drops his next banger and you think to yourself, "I could write something way better than that," you're looking at it wrong. You (assumingly) don't have the charisma to pull off what Wiz Khalifa is doing. You don't have the swagger or the understanding of what's going to work.

It's the same shit across all genres. Max Martin, the guy who wrote a lot of the biggest boy band songs of the late 1990s (Backstreet Boys, *NSYNC, Britney Spears, etc.), is a fucking genius for his dynamic understanding of the mainstream market. But his songs on paper read like they were written in crayon by a 12-year-old girl. That's kind of the point. No one did it better than him at the time, in that genre.

Now, in order to make music that permeates pop culture in such a way that it has real staying power, you have to find a balance. Jay Z did that better than anyone ever. That's why he gets that title as the best ever, because he reached almost everyone who would ever listen to rap (and some people who wouldn't) and made music that can stand on its skill ("Meet the Parents," "D'Evils," "Public Service Announcement," etc.) and music that just bangs for the common folk ("Empire State of Mind," "Big Pimpin'," "99 Problems," etc.). And on top of that, unlike Notorious B.I.G. or 2Pac (though it's easy to say they would have, there's no real proof), he did it for years. That is not an easy thing to do.

word

this is what i was trying to say with my last post

im just stoned and a self proclaimed idiot. so there is that.

[Witty]

When it comes to mass appeal, Eminem > Jay

Does this make Em G.O.A.T?

[uh-oh]

when it comes to mass appeal

jay>eminem

eminem hasnt been universally liked since the marshall mathers lp. you aint gonna see a grimey black dude bumping new eminem. but you will hear him bumping magna carta. and the same white dudes who bump eminem would bump magna carta

[Certain]

Eminem does kill Jay Z in album sales, but I think that has more to do with a massive group of very loyal fans than universal appeal. And as uh-oh points out, his artistic value has fallen off the face of the Earth in the past decade. Granted, I thought The Blueprint 3 and Magna Carta Holy Grail were underwhelming, but they still hold up better than Relapse or Recovery.

[Witty]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

when it comes to mass appeal

jay>eminem

eminem hasnt been universally liked since the marshall mathers lp. you aint gonna see a grimey black dude bumping new eminem. but you will hear him bumping magna carta. and the same white dudes who bump eminem would bump magna carta

Maybe in America but Eminem is the biggest selling artist of the last decade.

Trust me, worldwide Eminem is a lot bigger than Jay, even these days.

I know dudes that have no interest in any sort of hip hop culture who bump eminem, heavy metal dude, punks etc. I dont know anybody who bumps Jay-Z who is not into hip hop.

[Joe Metts]

If skills sold truth be told...
i probably be lyrically Talib Kweli..
Truthfully, i wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But i did 5mill and i ain't been rhyming like Common Since




Jigga knows who he is.

[Inno]

Originally Posted by Certain Serpent

It ain't like that.



It's not easy to make something with mass appeal. But it's also not easy to make something that intellectually matters. These are difficult things. Becoming a career rapper is not easy (unless you have friends in high places who carry your ass; right, Cappadonna?).

So when Wiz Khalifa drops his next banger and you think to yourself, "I could write something way better than that," you're looking at it wrong. You (assumingly) don't have the charisma to pull off what Wiz Khalifa is doing. You don't have the swagger or the understanding of what's going to work.

It's the same shit across all genres. Max Martin, the guy who wrote a lot of the biggest boy band songs of the late 1990s (Backstreet Boys, *NSYNC, Britney Spears, etc.), is a fucking genius for his dynamic understanding of the mainstream market. But his songs on paper read like they were written in crayon by a 12-year-old girl. That's kind of the point. No one did it better than him at the time, in that genre.

Now, in order to make music that permeates pop culture in such a way that it has real staying power, you have to find a balance. Jay Z did that better than anyone ever. That's why he gets that title as the best ever, because he reached almost everyone who would ever listen to rap (and some people who wouldn't) and made music that can stand on its skill ("Meet the Parents," "D'Evils," "Public Service Announcement," etc.) and music that just bangs for the common folk ("Empire State of Mind," "Big Pimpin'," "99 Problems," etc.). And on top of that, unlike Notorious B.I.G. or 2Pac (though it's easy to say they would have, there's no real proof), he did it for years. That is not an easy thing to do.

word to @Certain Serpent and @uh-oh

good shit...wasn't trying to argue more so trying to understand where both of you where coming from a little better...I understand what yall saying I just thought that's what you guys meant...

[ill nik-A]

Originally Posted by J. Metts

If skills sold truth be told...
i probably be lyrically Talib Kweli..
Truthfully, i wanna rhyme like Common Sense
But i did 5mill and i ain't been rhyming like Common Since




Jigga knows who he is.

Preach my nigga

[oats]

mc fucksto and the fishbowl 5 are underrated imo @God Of War


other than that, this is a stupid thread. on one end of the spectrum, you have dumbass hipster snobbery ("Jay Z used to be good, then he sold out and now he sucks because he's famous"), on the other end you have ignorant, sheep-mentality idiocy ("OMG Bubble Butt is da best rap song EVER!!!! That's why it's on the radio!").

This is a big world, with lots of different people in it, plenty of room for all of the above to exist. Some days I like Panacea, some days I like Ludacris. That means I get to enjoy two different things. Anyone who only allows themselves to like one end of the spectrum is childish to me.

[ill nik-A]

Three pages of stupidity u chimed in guess u included homeboy

[DLB]

nik, u old af. just put the viagra down & retire

[ill nik-A]

@Death u wack as fuck no one listens to u

[DLB]

oh u mad cause im stylin on u old man?

u trash & overrated

[dull boy]

Lyrical skill comes through whether you're commercially successful or independent. Jay Z is dope, and his amount of sales have nothing to do with it.

The argument stemmed from Nik's low opinion of what he calls nerd rap, and his ignorant way of stating his view of it.

[DLB]

Nik is like those old, white racist dudes who are like "I hate all you niggers.. go back to your corn fields... gay people deserve to die.... you damn mexicans keep stealing our jobs..." but in a rap version. like u can't listen to no rapper that ain't Nik approved