Clinton vs Trump, who would you vote for if it comes down to this?

[Sharp]

Originally Posted by uh-oh

I dont know how to link on my phone.

Did they not ask for more security?

You copy the url? I'm on my phone

And yes it's well known that hundreds of requests for extra security never got to her

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/ben...ing-whats-new/


Clearly they should've gotten more but those requests never got to her. Someone should be held accountable. Hard to blame that on Hilary

[uh-oh]

Originally Posted by Sharp

You copy the url? I'm on my phone

And yes it's well known that hundreds of requests for extra security never got to her

http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/ben...ing-whats-new/


Clearly they should've gotten more but those requests never got to her. Someone should be held accountable. Hard to blame that on Hilary

Its really not though, it was her responsibility.

Unless it wasnt. I was hust under the assumption it was since shes been raked over the coals for it.

Benghazi isnt the only thing tho, its just one scand in a string of them that have been her entire political career. Im pretty sure she was the first, first lady ever tried for anything way back in the early 90s

Id have to look into it more tho, im just going off some 8 year old nonsense i learned when i was in full conspiracy mode back in the day.

I just dont view these things as nothing like she makes them out to be. She shrugs and acts like having a private server with classified shit on it isnt a big deal, meanwhile they dishonor petrayus or however you spell it for the same shit.

Shes scum. Trump is only better because he hasnt had the chance to do any illeg shifty political shit because hes not a politician. Also i am a mysoginist lol. I gotta look into what anime boners is talking about though this is the first im hearing about him telling blacks to go back to africa or whatever lol

And him saying the guys hould be roughed up was trumps usual brash way of speaking. He didnt mean it BECAUSE the guy was black, but because the guy was trying to fuck up his shit

But again i havent been studying trumps every move. I just see him say funny dumb shit and giggle.

I have no horse in this race. Like everyone with a brain im in the middle. Left right liberal conservative is all nonsense.

I just lean more conservative cuz im a white male who hates change. Obama got me an extra 300 or so in fines for obamacare. Lets get a shitball republican in there to repeal that so i can go back to being a burden on hospitals with the only thing being punished being my made up credit score

[oats]

Originally Posted by Certain

It took a pretty bad frontrunner for someone like Bernie Sanders to get any national fame

what makes you say that?

[Diode]

Originally Posted by quaker oats

what makes you say that?

America's left is center, if not right and even far right in most other countries. To have an outright socialist lead any kind of poll is a monumental occurrence.

[oats]

Originally Posted by Diode

America's left is center, if not right and even far right in most other countries. To have an outright socialist lead any kind of poll is a monumental occurrence.

I understand that, but he's running on a nearly identical platform as Obama in 08 and Gore in 2000 on the Big Issues. He's more outspoken about his nominal affiliation, which I know makes people nervous, but his actual stances aren't terribly radical. Overly idealistic? Sure. But not radical.

[Diode]

Originally Posted by quaker oats

I understand that, but he's running on a nearly identical platform as Obama in 08 and Gore in 2000 on the Big Issues. He's more outspoken about his nominal affiliation, which I know makes people nervous, but his actual stances aren't terribly radical. Overly idealistic? Sure. But not radical.

His outspokenness is absolutely radical.

[Certain]

Originally Posted by quaker oats

I understand that, but he's running on a nearly identical platform as Obama in 08 and Gore in 2000 on the Big Issues. He's more outspoken about his nominal affiliation, which I know makes people nervous, but his actual stances aren't terribly radical. Overly idealistic? Sure. But not radical.

Not only what Diode said, but also, his policy concepts are significantly more extreme. There's a large gap between "Berniecare" and "Obamacare" in pragmatic terms.

[oats]

Fair enough. I just find it strange analysis to say that his success is due to a weak frontrunner.

[oats]

Originally Posted by Certain

Not only what Diode said, but also, his policy concepts are significantly more extreme. There's a large gap between "Berniecare" and "Obamacare" in pragmatic terms.

In some areas I can see that, but in terms of foreign policy, economics, climate change, he's not at all extreme, even in the context of modern American politics. I think this type of stuff is overstated because he is an outspoken socialist.

[Objective]

I don't follow US politics that closely but what I've heard so far I'd probably vote for Bernie Sanders. Any solid reasons to why I shouldn't if I was an American citizen? In short, what's Berniecare and what are his most extreme views that opposing party members doesn't like or don't think will work in practice?

[NYCSPITZ]

school and healthcare should be free tho...like a human right and shit, naw mean...

[oats]

Originally Posted by Objective

I don't follow US politics that closely but what I've heard so far I'd probably vote for Bernie Sanders. Any solid reasons to why I shouldn't if I was an American citizen? In short, what's Berniecare and what are his most extreme views that opposing party members doesn't like or don't think will work in practice?

what I believe gets the most eyeballs rolling is: raising minimum wage, federally funded public universities, and a single-payer healthcare system. Though I'm a supporter of Bernie, I do agree that those proposals are unfeasible to varying degrees.

Edit: Though I should mention, how he plans to pay for them - largely through raising or adding taxes and military spending cuts - is also a source of contention for a lot of folks.

[Objective]

@quaker oats: Aaah, I see. I'm more certain I'd vote for Bernie Sanders then. But only because I know it works in practice over here. Free healthcare, free universities and minimum wage is higher. I don't mind adding to the pool as I'll probably need it some day as well. A friend of mine wouldn't be able to get extremely important drugs on prescriptions if it wasn't for free healthcare as the pills would have been too expensive that way, but regardless what party you vote for I don't think the free health care system would even be a debate as everyone kind of agrees it's a good thing. It's more an issue whether or not there should be more privatized hospitals or not.

How much do you pay in taxes now? The average here is 25-30% or so I think, it can be lower/higher depending on how much you earn and whether or not you got any loans that needs down payment, if you got something like that you can display your financial situation and get reduced taxes so you get a little push to make it through during harsh times but you'll still earn less (in most cases) than you would if you didn't have any loans. And it's 47.5% at most for the rich folks. I think it's pretty fair the way it is now around here and probably what Bernie Sanders is pushing for as well?

[oats]

Sanders is very much a fan of the Nordic countries' tax and social systems.

[Objective]

Originally Posted by quaker oats

Sanders is very much a fan of the Nordic countries' tax and social systems.

Then I'd recommend others that ain't sure what they think of it to look into it a bit more and how it has positively affected us. Still serious issues here in Norway regarding retirement homes and shit though, we got shitload of cash but apparently they don't put enough into the budget so the elderly can have a decent end at life. Disgusting shit on that part but yeah, can't really complain about much else. It ain't flawless and there's always room for improvement but over all I'm satisfied with it.

[uh-oh]

I read an article criticizing the Scandinavian countries systems that bernie loves. Basically i think it used sweden as an example, talked about how its economy was built with capitolism in the early to mid 1900s and then shifted to the more socialist democracy. They started a crazy heavy tax on the rich and job creation plummeted because there was no incentive to get rich. I want to say it was something like a 100 percent tax over a certain amount earned.

So basically when he references these great socialist nations he doesnt want to acknowledge the capitolist system built them.

Personally i wouldnt mind if we had free college and healthcare, the only problem i have with it is bernie has no idea how to make it happen. His talks of taxing the rich to pay for it dont even cover like 10 percent of the cost it would take. Im not sure how the "single payer" healthcare thing works either

But to switch gears a little bit, lets say its rigged and a republican has to win

Do you guys prefer ted cruz to trump?

[oats]

@uh-oh that sounds like complete horseshit tbh. taxes have very little effect on job creation (per history), and I can't imagine there was ever an 100% tax rate on anyone in modern history; it would be a retarded policy that, in all fairness, would certainly kill any kind of incentive. sounds like whoever wrote that invests too much in the antiquated, thoroughly debunked Laffer Curve.

progressive taxation (richer people pay more in taxes as a percentage) has been a demonstrably positive force in society since it was introduced. often, those high tax rates of 70-90% - in America or elsewhere - are applied after a certain amount. Meaning, as an example, you get taxed say 45% on your first 5 million dollars in annual income, and then after that it goes up.

also, good question. both Cruz and Trump strike me as pretty repulsive. I'd rather Rubio, Kasich or Paul from the GOP side.


@Objective I admire a lot of Norwegian and Finnish social policies, especially the social safety nets and focus on education, but one of the reasonable criticisms of those policies is that America is a much bigger, more complicated place to try and implement them. Geographically, demographically, culturally etc, it's just a whole different beast than small, mostly homogenous countries. I could expound upon why I support Bernie even though I don't think any of his big propositions will work and/or get any political traction, but...yeah.

[Objective]

Oats: Yeah, I think the cultural differences and the way it works now is the biggest issue. Implementing such a system at once would mean a drastic lifestyle change for a lot of people. A change that would mean a lot would have to relocate and maybe live somewhere else and get people pissed off due to impatience to see the good impact it'll have in the long run. It would take some time before it's incorporated in a way that works with different modifications to cater to the US way of living and issues we don't face over here, and 4 years is far from enough to undergo such a development and it would probably not get another 8 years to make it happen due to the fact of those who are negatively affected by it and all of those that don't see the fruits of it immediately will vote for someone else next term as it'll probably take some time before it works as intended.

I believe the best would be to start off in smaller experimental cities and expand from there, from smaller cities to surrounding bigger ones and eventually entire states over the course of a decade or two preferably since the transition could need some time to go as smooth as possible with populations like that. Impossible situation that'll probably never happen but I'm allowed to dream, right?

[uh-oh]

Oats i cant link on my phone for some reason. Its a nypost article

You can google bernie sanders scandinavia and it should pop up.
In Sweden, the effective marginal tax rate topped 100 percent in some circumstances. There is a reason that IKEA founder Ingvar Kamprad fled the country in 1973. Sweden instituted a scheme to confiscate corporate profits and hand them over to labor unions. The idea was, in the words of a Swedish economist, to have “a market economy without individualist capitalists and entrepreneurs.”

It basically talks about how sweden prospered from low tax rates and then in the 70s they went full bernie and fucked everything up.

[Objective]

Even though it fucked shit up it doesn't mean it wasn't a step in the right direction either though.