DETERMINISM, FREE WILL, GUILTY, INNOCENT. deadman

[zygote]

(deadman)
DETERMINISM


primary is binary. it's splitting a sequence
matrices, a smorgasbord for digital leeches
there's an unexplained phenomena fulfilling allegiance
between decision and reason. blueprints, simple procedure
let the guilty hang from twisted sheets we stitched in the bleachers
learned from similar teachers,
little boxes set for shipment in secret
listen to Nietzsche, or your prescription to peaceful
expires in time to hear the verdict. sentenced to death
intention and action exist as separate events
bound as ethical counterparts to present a defense
mortality is dense. sight is a sensitive sense
it's the sinewy flesh of jurisdiction. where intention awaits
penitentiary plates. licenses to kill for escape
but it's a question of control. it's a question of fate
it's a timeframe. designed behind an intellectual state
be pensive, be great. plead puppet when it isn't insane
if you're the product of potential isn't the signal to blame?
we've justified for centuries, the symbols unchanged
placing D'jango in chains. Schindler in cylindrical flames
our only god is Judge. gavels lifted, prisoner slain
yet only God adjusts his gravel pits to filter the rain.
if you're an innocent slave to pre-determinant binds
should you be tried for committing a subservient crime?
or were you MEANT for sacrifice to birth a design
complete a double-helix just by serving your time
plead puppet-master. ignorance is blissful retreat
for the cellular potential of a digital leech.


GUILTY




(zygote)
FREE WILL

duality is reality. it’s a simple perspective
mind body dichotomy, both interconnected
sanskrit-like genes etched as metaphysical records
every spiritual message is a by-product of chemical signal receptors
but the mind is a non-physical substance
self-awareness and something else that sits just above this
subjective to some, but to others it’s justice
simple perspectives within a hypocritical judgement
scrap philosophers, discard formalized thought
new questions are found more than they’re sought.
Whether as a saving grace or as an awkward recourse
for 30 pieces of lead it still martyred the cause
liberty of mind, interpret with a narrow approach
diagrams point to where arrows denote
listing off figures, at the point of exhaustion
where free choice is reduced into moral extortion
smaller and smaller until a single event
if birth is a code then the signal is death
like the structure of judgement, how to reach a decision
the relevant facts , every breach and provision
terms and conditions are bonds stronger than metal
jam on the brakes and press the opposite pedal
the problem is settled, it’s simple to test.
is the mind one with the soul or is one possessed
like transplanted limbs that a system rejects
no spiritual tests, the mind survives at physical death
free will and duality, judgement and legality. they interconnect.

INNOCENT

[oats]

On my phone so this'll be brief, but this was an excellent collab. I liked the approach of one pre-destination and the other free will, Calvin and Arminian true NCG status. In any case, both had standout lines as expected. I would have liked to see more direct back and forth personally, as opposed to one verse followed by another. But this still turned out dope. I'll come back and add which quotes in particular I enjoyed. Overall, good shit.

[Zombie]

Will abide, later, gentlemen.

[Certain]

My mother is a reverend, and I am a staunch apatheist. We have a lot of long-winded debates about the merits of religion, made tolerable because she has very liberal interpretations of things. The sticking point for me, as is traditional for apatheists (perhaps more commonly called pragmatic agnostics, if you've never heard the term), is that God's existence is irrelevant to human life. My view is simple: If there is a being powerful enough to have created everything including me, that being already is fully aware of what will happen to everything. It's not so much predestination as it is the caveat of unlimited knowledge. If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then he knows what your decisions will be ahead of time. In that case, how can anyone claim free will? And if God isn't all-knowing and all-powerful, then how did he pull this creation stuff off? Is a god without full knowledge and power really justifiable in calling God?

So the subject matter of these verses, particularly when put together in the same space, really appealed ot me. I thought dead_man's verse was one of the strongest in the league this week, but adding in zygote's half made it even better. dead_man obviously is a master of intellectual dissertations set to ridiculous rhyme schemes. I appreciate that this wasn't over-saturated with references but also still felt very intellectual. I started to block off a section to quote, and it ended up being more than half the verse:

it's the sinewy flesh of jurisdiction. where intention awaits
penitentiary plates. licenses to kill for escape
but it's a question of control. it's a question of fate
it's a timeframe. designed behind an intellectual state
be pensive, be great. plead puppet when it isn't insane
if you're the product of potential isn't the signal to blame?
we've justified for centuries, the symbols unchanged
placing D'jango in chains. Schindler in cylindrical flames
our only god is Judge. gavels lifted, prisoner slain
yet only God adjusts his gravel pits to filter the rain.
if you're an innocent slave to pre-determinant binds
should you be tried for committing a subservient crime?
or were you MEANT for sacrifice to birth a design
complete a double-helix just by serving your time
plead puppet-master. ignorance is blissful retreat
for the cellular potential of a digital leech.

Well, I loved all that. There wasn't a weak line in that entire patch. I didn't like "sight is a sensitive sense," which immediately preceded that quote, but whatever. This verse was excellent.

Then zygote came in and counterpunched with the mirror style that Split Eight just brought up in his magazine. There are very slight differences in your dead_man mirror style to dead_man's actual style, but they're only at all noticeable because the verses are in such close proximity and labeled. I would say dead_man uses non-rhyming soundscapes better, and zygote's word choice is a bit tighter and less forced.

I liked that zygote didn't approach showcase some sort of ignorance or naïveté, which would have been the easier counterpoint. Instead, you tried to justify the opposing view through the lens of dead_man's cynicism. My mom can't do that, so I always win our battles. Anyway, given the scenario in which you wrote this verse, it was very impressive. Here was my favorite part:

sanskrit-like genes etched as metaphysical records
every spiritual message is a by-product of chemical signal receptors
but the mind is a non-physical substance
self-awareness and something else that sits just above this
subjective to some, but to others it’s justice
simple perspectives within a hypocritical judgement
scrap philosophers, discard formalized thought
new questions are found more than they’re sought.
Whether as a saving grace or as an awkward recourse
for 30 pieces of lead it still martyred the cause

I think you two may be the most polished writers this site has to offer, with all respect to Vulgar, oats and a few others. I'd love to see an intentional, planned collaboration.

[dead man]

Originally Posted by Captain Serpant

If God is all-knowing and all-powerful, then he knows what your decisions will be ahead of time. In that case, how can anyone claim free will? And if God isn't all-knowing and all-powerful, then how did he pull this creation stuff off? Is a god without full knowledge and power really justifiable in calling God?

sounds a lot like a modified 3 O's argument, and it begs the question: can God create a rock which he himself cannot move?

if not, he is false

if so, he is also false.. in a traditional sense

given this post, i am now fully convinced for the first time that you are not Dagel. congratulations. and many thanks for your thoughtful response.

[PancakeBrah]

Cool word thing

[Certain]

Originally Posted by dead man

given this post, i am now fully convinced for the first time that you are not Dagel. congratulations.

Damn, either you're not paying attention or I'm doing something wrong.

[Vulgar]

Black Destitute - I was reminded of a futuristic Grand Theft Auto-like virtual grid in which utopia is praised, therefore dystopia is seen as a sacred lost tradition. The Atlantis of a perfect system where accountability used to be seen as something of substance, and not measured by a 'sin' speedometer. The fluids of malicious genetics, spliced until they form ancient mirrors in our blood cells, reflecting the unabashed consequences of our unchecked deeds. A composition of matrix zeta-reticula statements positing your own views on the subject of predetermined fate. It's easy to be found guilty when an entanglement of veins masquerades as puppet strings - only to be revealed as puppet strings in the end. Full circle existential irony. Cirque de Sole Creator. All in all, this was a slick verse with a purpose in mind; hard to find any fault with.

we've justified for centuries, the symbols unchanged
placing D'jango in chains. Schindler in cylindrical flames
our only god is Judge. gavels lifted, prisoner slain
yet only God adjusts his gravel pits to filter the rain.
^S!ck.

Zyg Goot - Kool follow up to Black's thesis on determinism. The verse was more academic sounding in the beginning than I would have liked. Rhythmic scientific dissertations never hurt nobody but I like when alternate literary devices are implanted into the body of a piece to keep it from getting too grey and riddled with terms. This was well written, as was Black's. I felt like you took a step outside of yourself to 'merge' with Black's vintage style, making them coordinate together. There were interesting points made about freewill and also some of the paradoxes that go along with it. For example, you mentioned that life's choices are reduced to moral extortion - a systematic strangulation of what it means to do the right thing. The Ludovico Technique down to the DNA-level application.

terms and conditions are bonds stronger than metal
jam on the brakes and press the opposite pedal
the problem is settled, it’s simple to test.
is the mind one with the soul or is one possessed
like transplanted limbs that a system rejects
^Solid lines and construction.

@zygote

So yeah, nice collab gents.

[BWHAHA]

yes.

[PiE]

dead lion, I like the digital leech analogy and it's something I write about sometimes. your flow and narration were both smooth and witty as well to make the religious aspects you introduced even smooth as religion is never a smooth subject to adhere to. you used more imagery towards the end, which I thought was also a great touch as it's something I like doing on my own verses. done colorful images were drawn too and that helped bring the topic to life because both religion and science can bore readers who rather just be entertained by verses. I liked this... made me slightly excited to see what zygote came with to match it.

zygote, your expression of free will was very scientific. I really enjoyed it from an analytical point of view to the facts. your writing style sounds like an old professor teaching a sociology course. it didn't really have the wit that dead man had, but there was some evidence of a light hearted cynic in there. flow was cool for the most part, but content was obviously the focus and this was definitely focused on the topic.