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Originally Posted by VERITAS

hold up fam.....If you believe the rapture is a lie then perhaps you should build yours to mine.

now:

answer me: what wrath is it that we are not appointed to?


1 thess 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,


also let me ask you: who shall not die?

1 cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,


especiallay since the bible says that it is appointed once for every man to die?


so answer me this: 1. what wrath is it that we are not appointed to? I say that we are not appointed to the wrath of GOD which is the tribulation period aka four sets of 7 judgements all getting progressively worse

and 2. who shall not sleep? I say it is the church, the called out body, ecclesia.


answer please:

Fam, take this slow...I don't care who is right...we are not to justify ourselves. So read through this slow and consider.

Like many world religions and like many Christians, your understanding and knowledge of truth only exist in the confides of Letters in the so called New Testament. This is your first great error. We must remember that MessiYAH and the 12 and Paul all taught through the Torah lens. You cannot begin to understand the "bible' unless you shake your pagan mindset (christain mindset) and see it how these Hebrews saw it.

The prophet Isaiah tells us that doctrine has to be established:


Isaiah 28:9-10

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Well ???

You provided in ignorance (not knowing) 1 Cor 15:51 as a verse to support a doctrine that is not in the "bible", but only in the hearts of deceived men and woman.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Paul is referring to the great and terrible day. The sound of the trumpet will single this...this trump he refers to starts the first seal which is explained in Revelations chapter 6. Not not rapture where you vanish in mid air to where ? The Kingdom is coming down from heaven to earth forever. The earth was not created in vain. Nither will Abba Yah's word come back to him in vain.

The wrath of the tribulations will purify his body of believers that are found in MessiYAH...But know you WILL go through tribulations if you be in that time...make no mistake. You have to be pure and tested to be found worthy to enter the narrow gates of the Kingdom and to go to the wilderness first to learn the way under the King Yahshua. The Broadway to destruction is the world's religion and what they are teaching you.

Matter of fact, the Feast of Trumpets is a High Day of Elohim that also foreshadows the great day. All his High Days do, fore in all his law is a teaching of his way. The Father uses trumpets to sound everything...it's all over scripture.

Isaiah speaks of this time, when Yahuwah will gather up Ysrael again..at the sound of THAT TRUMPET

Isaiah 27:12-13

12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that YAHWUAH shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.

13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship YAHUWAH in the holy mount at Jerusalem.

This of course has not happened yet.

His place on earth is Jerusalem. Even in Genesis, before Jerusalem became Jerusalem, it was Salem, where Yahuwah had a preist their after the order of meshedaik, the king of Salem.

Joel 2:1

Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of YAHUWAH cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

He is speaking of that day.

The angles will be with MessiYAH to tear the wheat from the chaff...those appointed to wrath and those going to the wilderness...

Revelation 8:6

And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

IT GETS DEEP. THIS IS A BREIF OUTLINE...I have much to cover.

//

To show you that when we did we are really asleep spiritually. Consider a when MessiYAH rose Lazarous from the dead.

John 11

11 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Master with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Master, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

4 When Yahshua heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of Elohim, that the Son of Elohim might be glorified thereby.

5 Now Yahshua loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.

6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.

7 Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.

8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?

9 Yahshua answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12 Then said his disciples, Master, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13 Howbeit Yahshua spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14 Then said Yahshua unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

In Yahshua's understanding he was not dead, rather asleep until the great resurrection of us all on the time appointed, not know rapture.. He finally spoke carnally and to the peoples understanding and said, yeah he's dead. But in reality we don't die. We just return to the earth.

If Lazarus was in Heaven, he must of been looking down saying, "OH MAN not again...I have to come out of the Kingdom to go back to that evil place!!" lol

I can provide many more accounts and witness in scripture...but just know MessiYAH came in the volume of the "books" or the Torah (instructions). He was a walking Torah and you must remember that, he taught the will of the Father, which is to obey Him at every word.


-How we are not appointed to wrath. This is found in YAHUWAH's salvation: Yahshua the MessiYAH (which means YAH's Salvation)...in English Joshua.

-What is wrath and how we escape it ?...it's called Grace. Grace is our liberty or freedom of the judgments for breaking YAH's everlasting laws. There were two sets of laws. The law and the judgements for breaking them. MessiYAH frees us from not keeping the law, but judgements for them.




Here is an amazingly simple teaching in the Bible that is rarely taught.

It is concerning the law that was done away with through Yahshua's sacrifice. Here is also the true teaching which pertains to GRACE.

Hebrews 7:12-14

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

This 7th chapter of Hebrews pertain to Yahshua becoming the High Priest through him becoming the sacrifice, fulfilling what was prophecied of him. He is literally the lamb of Elohim (God).

For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendence at the altar.

For it is evident that our Master sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Yahshua came out of the tribe of Judah not out of the priest tribe of Levi.

Psalms 110 prophecied of this. But with the change of the priesthood also came a change of the laws which pertained to the Levitical priesthood. To put it plain, there were two set of laws in the Old Testament. The one set are the commandments of Elohim and the other set is the laws that you was placed under (the JUDGEMENTS) for breaking the aforementioned commandments. Let's read the BIBLICAL definition of what sin is.

1 John 3:4-5

Whosoever committeth sin, transgresseth ALSO the LAW:

(WHY?)

for SIN IS the TRANSGRESSION of the LAW.

And ye know that he was manifested to TAKE AWAY our sins; and in him is no sin.

We see here that sin means "transgression of the law". Any act that is contrary to Yahuwah's commandments is sin. Yahshua came to take away our sin because all men have sinned, and unless you become justified by the blood of Messiah, you are still in your sins and you are subject to the judgements of those sins. Now in the Old Testament, there was various judgements for various sins that the Levitical priesthood presided over. When you transgressed a sin not unto death, then you had to offer up sin offerings through the Levitical priesthood. But a transgression that was a part of the 10 commandments usually meant that the sinner had to die...without mercy/GRACE.

In Exodus 20 We see the Ten Commandments. But let's read the very next chapter

Exodus 21:1,12,17,24

NOW, these are the JUDGEMENTS which thou shalt set before them...

...He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to DEATH.

...And he that CURSETH his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death...

...Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

Here, we see just a portion of that second set of laws called the
JUDGEMENTS. In the book of Leviticus you can read about the sins which required sin offerings/sacrifices. All of these JUDGEMENTS were what Yahshua's sacrifice delivered us from giving us GRACE.

Romans 6:12-16

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lust thereof.
Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto Elohim, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto Elohim.

Paul is saying something here that goes completely UNNOTICED. He said to not let sin reign in your body and to yield it unto Elohim as instruments of RIGHTEOUSNESS. You can't be an instrument of righteousness if you're not keeping the commandments of Yahuwah.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for you are NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.

Paul is saying here that you are NOT under the death sentence that came from Adam. We will read about that later. We have received GRACE from the JUDGEMENTS that we were under according to the Old Covenant.

Now here's the thing. People misconstrue this to mean that we don't have to keep the commandments. No! You are NOT delivered from the laws of Yahuwah. You were delivered from the laws/JUDGEMENTS you were under for BREAKING those laws. Look at what Paul says in the next verse.

What then? shall we sin, because we are not UNDER the law, but under grace? Elohim forbid.

A prisoner receives parole from prison which is grace, NOT because he earned it, but because he had a powerful attorney/intercessor that delivered him from UNDER THE LAW. This prisoner sinned and he should have faced the JUDGEMENT but he was delivered. Upon his release, he asks his lawyer, shall I go back and commit the crime again now that I'm not under the law but under grace? The intercessor says, "Elohim forbid!!"
Think about it

Know ye not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey; his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death,or of obedience unto righteousness?

Well???...

..Don't you know that?

Whatever actions you take whether you acknowledge it or not...if you keep Yah's commandments you are Yah's servant fulfilling the first AND greatest commandment. But if you follow after the rudiments of this world and the traditions of men, then you are a servant of ANOTHER Elohim. Yep... Satan himself,...regardless of who name you call upon.

But Elohim be thanked, that YE WERE SERVANTS of sin, but ye have OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Being then MADE FREE FROM SIN; YE BECAME THE SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

And it don't stop...

Galatians 3:10-13,19-24

For as many as are under the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that continueth NOT in the things which are written in the book of law to do them.
But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of Elohim.

Why is no man justified in the sight of Elohim?

Because we have all sinned that's why. No matter how much you keep the commandments you still have to be justified from the sins that you had commited in the past. For ALL have sinned.

it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith...

...Messiah hath redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a tree:

Hanging was also a judgement that was a penalty for sin. Yahshua was penalized for OUR sins.

Wherefore then serveth the law? It was ADDED because of transgressions...

In the next passage we shall see that sin can't be imputed if there is no law. So with that being the case, there was another set of laws as we saw above which was added because of transgressions. And these laws were none other than the JUDGEMENT laws. We were under these judgements which were our schoolmaster until Messiah came. Now, apply what you have learned to this next passage and watch how Paul's words flow.

Romans 5:18-21

Therefore as by the offence of one JUDGEMENT came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.

For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE SINNERS, so by the OBEDIENCE of one shall many be made righteous.

That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might GRACE reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Yahshua HaMashiach our Master.

Now theologians/pastors/laymen read this passage and think that Messiah's death, which was a FREE GIFT/GRACE, means that we are not under the commandments.

No.

You are not under the JUDGEMENT which was the condemnation of death.

Ok,...so I would have to ask that now that you have partook of the free gift/GRACE, shall you continue in sin or must you start living a new way? Paul asks this same question in the next chapter.

Romans 6:1-7,12-18

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that GRACE may abound?

Paul's answer:

ELOHIM FORBID. How shall we, that are DEAD to sin, live any longer therein?

How can you, or anyone else that is dead to sin, live any longer in sin, which as we read, was the transgression of the law.

How can you come under Yahshua's blood and still not keep the sabbath?

...and STILL eat pig and other abominations?

....and STILL talk about "Jesus was born on Decemeber 25?......and STILL put a tree/idol up in your living room?

Let's continue this chapter

Know ye not that so many of us were baptized into Yahshua HaMashiach were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should WALK in the newness of life.

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, WE SHALL

ALSO BE IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION:
Knowing this, that our old man is CRUCIFIED with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin...

That adulterous, lying, idolotrous, pig-eating, Sunday morning-keeping, etc., etc., man/woman is DEAD! If he is dead then you are henceforth not serving sin. No ifs, and, or buts about it!

For he that is dead is freed from sin....
...;Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto Elohim, as those that alive from the dead, AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO ELOHIM.

This is something that YOU have to do! Bust that rhetoric that those holier-than-thou people be talking about saying, "The holy spirit keeps me walking in Elohim." Yea...I'm like, "Show that to me in the book!" But at anyrate, this letter of Paul's is FLOWING! Let's look at a portion of the letter Paul wrote to the Colossians who were newly delivered from sin and the pagan lifestyle of their people.

Colossians 2:6-16

As ye have therefore recieved Yahshua HaMashiach the Master, so walk ye in him:
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Beware lest any man spoil you through PHILOSOPHY and VAIN DECEIT, after the TRADITION OF MEN, after the RUDIMENTS OF THE WORLD, and not after Messiah.

Who were the philosophers in Paul's day? The Gentiles (Greeks and Romans) that's who. Their culture as them being the world rulers dictated what the traditions of men and the rudiments of the world were, just as present-day Christianity IS filled with traditions that came out of these Gentile idolatrous cultures.

For in HIM dwelleth ALL the fullness of the Elohim head bodily.

He's telling these Greeks, that not in Zeus, Apollo, Mithra, Easter (heh) and Diana does the Elohimhead exist, neither are they Elohims, but in the Elohim of Israel are these Greeks saved. Yes, this is a deep letter but it's very clear when you read it in context.

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of ALL

(ALL, absolutely ALL...including Nero, Caligula, and all the other Gentile rulers of the day.)

PRINCIPALITY AND POWER:...
...And YOU being dead in your SINS AND THE UNCIRCUMCISION OF YOUR FLESH, hath he quickened together with him, having FORGIVEN YOU ALL TRESPASSES;
(GRACE!)
Blotting out the ordinances that was AGAINST US, which was CONTRARY to us,

Which ordinance was against us and contrary to us? He just told you that he had forgiven you all trespass or else you would have been subject to that ordinance that was against us.

Can you guess what that ordinance was?

and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers,he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath DAYS:

(Cuz they have been done away with?...No, Because

Which are a shadow of things TO COME; but the body is of Messiah.

Paul is telling these newly-converted Greeks to not let any man, and especially people of their own race which were the rulers, philosophers, and idolators, to judge them because they have took hold of the covenant of the Elohim of Israel which includes all those things that they would be judged by. Now, let's look at the ordinance that was against us.

Hebrews 10:26-28

For if we sin wilfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth NO MORE sacrifice for sins ,
But a certain fearful looking for of JUDGEMENT and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
He that despised Moses' law DIED WITHOUT MERCY under two or three witnesses.

HERE is that law which was against us and contrary to us.
The JUDGEMENT laws.

We had to die and unless Yahshua was made a sacrifice for the world, the Gentiles which were idolators among other things, could have never ever became a part of the "commonwealth of Israel".

Finally, let's look at one more passage. This is when they brought an adulterer to Yahshua.

John 8:1-11

Yahshua went unto the mount of Olives
And early in the morning he came again into the temple,and all the people came unto him;and he sat down and taught them.
And the scribes and the Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
This they said tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Yahshua stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

Keep in mind here that had that woman not committed adultery, she would not have at this point,been put UNDER THE LAW...she needs some GRACE real quick or she will die.

And they which heard it, being CONVICTED by their OWN conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Yahshua was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Yahshua had just made intercession for this woman even before he BECAME the intercessor. Also note that had this woman given the option to sacrifice a bull or a goat as a JUDGEMENT for her sin, she would have happily done it. The sacrifices were not the ordinance that was contrary to us. Death was.

When Yahshua had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: GO, and SIN NO MORE.

Right there, Yahshua not only showed you which law was abolished, but he also showed you that you cannot continue in sin so that grace may abound. I'm sure that adulteress understood that perfectly! And...I hope you do too!

Grace & Peace in Yahshua