Alright here's my pseudo-philosophical thought: I don't believe in truly 'free' will
 

In a traditional sense, at least. And this isn't any predestination stuff, I'm still pretty squarely an atheist. I was given this idea by a friend about a year ago and came around to it a few months back.

Basically, the crux of the idea is that everything that would guide your decisions is already set. Who you are as a decision maker is determined mostly by who you are as a person in the moment, built on past experiences and your personality, and grows mostly due to external stimuli, none of which you can really control. Your reaction to those external stimuli are based on the other factors (which, again, are out of your control). All this put together means you (and by extension, your actions) are more or less set in stone

have fun with this

or don't

it's apparently not really up to us


tldr
https://i.imgur.com/gmRseBy.jpg

This is basically just the same as people who believe that there are infinite universes with an infinite number of timelines, and that time being viewed as the present/past is just your perspective since everything is all happening at once. You’re experiencing a single timeline where all the outcomes have already been determined, and an infinite number of sharps are all on their own timelines making different decisions. I wouldn’t call it pseudointellectualism since there’s plenty of physicists who are working to prove this, but obviously it doesn’t have nearly as much conclusive evidence for it as something like evolution. Good post

i think this is another thing sam harris espouses to tie it into the other thread

i don't buy it but i get it. its mainly the contrarian in me. like FUCK THAT i'll stab myself right now. but then i think well maybe i was predestined to be that big of an asshole to stab myself to try and prove im in control of my DESTINY

at which point i think hey, maybe. and then continue on with life

I have the free will to come in this thread and tell you to stfu....fuck its like Believcees.org around this bitch lately....I'm about to create some drama just to distract you from this BS, goddamn you veritas...

I wouldn't call it multiple timelines since that's very theoretical (seeing as we can only prove one timeline exists) and this is just applied to what's happening in our very real lives.

I don't know enough about multiple timelines to say how this relates to one specific timeline in those theories tbh. Glad you like it though

I had the same thought when this was mentioned to me. But you didn't stab yourself right now. The contrarian in you is why you want to think that for the sake of a rhetorical argument, but at its core, I'm just saying that everything that informs our choices has already happened, meaning we can't really call our choices a product of truly free will

It's more of a semantics than philosophical argument

Like I said to uh-oh, it's the fact that everything about you that led you to come into this thread is already set. You were going to come into a brand new thread to post some of this shit because:

-personal - you're a still the negative attention lover who likes to antagonize this forum and start shit
-past experiences - your personal and boarding experience, which informs your decisions, and in some ways you're the product of our own unavoidable decisions
-external stimuli - I made this thread

So what part of that has you freely choosing to come here and make this post? You're compelled to come here and say this because of factors beyond your current control

Lmao wtf? Bitch you sound like the loser fucking nerd that everyone avoids at the party because your constantly talking about some stupid shit....

I thought you were going to run a tourney, focus less on this thread subject and do that...

You read too many veritas post....damn V literally effecting your brain waves, maybe he is a better troll....

Btw I'm off of work for the next 48 hrs, so I got plenty time to go back and forth with you(aka ruin your thread), fucks up? Lol @ sharp think he got it all figured out, like literally...smh

Dia your boarding has gotten significantly worse lately

@Diode can you just ban him already?

Lol daddy he's on my side....

You missed what in saying lol

Literally just that

You have free time

You're here and posting

Everything that is setting you up to choose to do this is already set - the external parts (netcees and your employer being sick of the reminder that they made the mistake of hiring you) and the pieces of your personality that drive you to want to do that (desperately wanting the attention from us, good or bad) are already set. It's more a semantic thing, but the jist is, of course you'll be here posting. There was no other way the next two days could go

in this timeline you're a stupid faggot and lowest tier boarder active (maybe ever)

Well, our passions and our will are different. Also to have free will is to reason and have control over your physical state. So which do we not have?

These men aren't nazis, Donny. They're nihilists. Say what you want about the tenets of nationalist socialism, but at least it's an ethos.

These men believe in nothing.

Thought Gj & Big were suckin' each other, guess not...
@Sharp, my bad didn't read everythin' fam...Are you sayin' Destiny is determined by choices, or is I completely off kilter?...

Diode gets me
I feel like you're missing the point

Every determining factor in any of those is based on stuff that has already happened or already set about you. You can't really have an effect on anything that you control because your reasons for acting a certain way are based on all that

Like I've been saying, it's semantics

Not really talking destiny. Just saying when you make a decision and choose A instead of B, everything that informed your decision to pick A is something you can't control (like your personality and past experiences)

Really it's just a petty issue with how the phrase 'free will' is interpreted

Nah I get what your sayin' bro...Sorry, like I made a decision to get a parent from my child's school out of a domestic violence relationship (& apparently she is now, which is great if that's the case) only to be completely shut out by her...If I had chosen not to I wouldn't of not only been hurt but would of regretted not steppin' in...That's like A plus B yes?

Sharp,

I have much to say about this. Would you allow it?

Here we go

Wouldn’t you simply be able to up and move to a completely new environment and thereby change your external input sources thus changing anything that may have been predetermined by biological and internal factors? I see the argument that this very choice would also be predetermined, but... what if the choice was made simply to disprove your argument? What if it was made again and again? I think free will lies in that area where we legitimately could make decisions like this. I think we do all the time.

lol

@Exis tbph I think we're talking about something else now and you lost me lol

Of course
The crux of this argument is that you can't control factors that influence that decision. I still think you could decide to change your environment, but the reasons why you decide to do so are already in place. Even if you're doing this to disprove my argument, you're making the move to disprove my argument because of who you are.

I didn't even wanna use the word 'predetermined' since it sounds like we don't have a choice. I think we can choose freely, but everything that would lead you to that choice is either already done or out of your control.

It's really a dumb little semantic gripe

Not really though. It’s the crux of the argument of if we, in fact, do possess free will.
I feel like we do, even if I’m unprepared to make a good argument why

I have figured out how to rectify Gods all knowing with human free will...and it is the deepest tenet of my remember the future tagline sir. Are you open to discussion of this?

I think we'd agree though. I believe we have free will and the ability to make our own decisions, but every part of the equation is already in place. it's not like we're truly choosing something rather than willingly following a natural progression

Like, if you respond to this post is kind of determined by your already existing qualities/experiences and how they influence you. It's really just a semantic thing

Sure, I don't know how much I can offer a discussion since I'm theorizing as an atheist language nazi, but I'd at least like to hear it

You have figured out the answer to one of the biggest conundrums in Christianity?

I, for one, am eager to know what you have come up with.

I've come across suggestions before which I decided did not make a lot of sense.

This is why the theory is baseless in the first place. Any argument against it can be “well, THAT is part of it being predetermined”. There’s no supporting evidence and it comes off as an excuse maker.

word.....I was reading DA Carson talk about Compatiblism and It was tough to swallow....though Im not sure I disagree with it

If you’re a liberal you’re a bad person, plane and symbol.

I’d argue all those outside factors effect our emotional side, not our rational one, or our logical one(we don’t think differently, in terms of logic, just that we think with less logical thought), so we still choose are actions, because we act through will not passion. If you act off of passion and not logic, I suppose you could say you didn’t “choose” what you based your action on, but you still decided to act how you did. “Free-will” is just being able to choose your actions by yourself. If not the universe is deterministic, which can’t be true because we have reason.

Pretty sure Thomas Aquinas did this too. No one really says that All-knowing beings contradict free will anymore.

oh an I thought the deterministic theory was already debunked in studies on identical and fraternal twins separated at birth

its nature vs nurture

there is intrinsic behavioral cognitive capabilities that are completely hereditary and ignore external stimuli as evidenced in the studies on the twins who were raised in completely separate environments and essentially became the same people

Determinism is that our actions our determined, it says nothing about what the determiner is.

thanks for the definition from the fagot taking highschool philosophy courses

whatever the fuck form of determinism fagot sharp is arguing in the OP k thanks pussy

Guys,

Work has become super busy. I have not forgotten this. I do not want to rush my words. I will be back.

But it's not deterministic. Think of what goes on when making a decision - every variable is already in place and your choice isn't so much a choice as it is a reflection of that

I'm a bad explainer, but I'm not subscribed to any sort of determinism. It's just nature + nurture are things that are beyond your control

de·ter·min·ism.
.

[dəˈtərməˌnizəm]







NOUN


philosophy
.


the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.

I too have googled it. I'm saying I belive in free will, but since everything that would lead us to our decisions is beyond our control, truly 'free' will is almost a misnomer

but yea I don't think the idea that our genetics and social constructs shape us takes away the functionality of free will. in a society of however many billion people operating with conscious and unconscious cognitive processes that we barely even understand, the theory over simplifies an irreducibly complex system.

basically youd have to say if we reset the earth to day one that every single event would occur the same leading up to the present.....I don't think our minds are so simply considered to agree with this

so what should we call it instead... kinda free will...