The difference is when I write long ass paragraphs, everything I say has a point and uses logical points with research to back it up. There's levels to this autism shit g

You're literally talking about lyricism and bringing up a song that's not even rap. I might as well be pulling out examples from Hailie's song.

Yeah, fucking peak penmanship at it's finest.

That's what we're talking about. Royce has 4 Bar Exam mixtapes and they're ALL been better than his albums and pure fucking lyrical clinics

See this is why your autism game is weak bro. You just wrote a whole paragraph and said absolutely nothing of substance. You provided NO evidence to back it up

How the FUCK are we having a discussion about Royce Da 5'9 vs. Eminem and you spend half your god damn post talking about MGK. MGK is not anywhere on the level of either of these dudes. MGK isn't even top 500 rappers. MGK is for middle class white kids whose parents won't let them listen to Tom MacDonald

That's like me saying Nas is better than Jay Z because Nas can clearly rap better than Milli Vanilli. I've seen ouch write more coherent arguments than this. You still haven't put forth ANY concrete examples.

Nothing gets overlooked. We're used to it because people just aren't impressed by random fucking multis in 2021. We all learned what multis were 17 years ago. Fucking soulja boy had Multis. They haven't been noteworthy since canibus rhymed "tom cruse mom's shoes"

Let's look at "Underground", which is probably the best song on relapse.

it's about on par with "just lose it"

or these gems from rap god

Like, this is the dude you're bigging up as a fucking lyrical genius. Dude just said faggoty 3 times and a bunch of bullshit that doesn't mean anything whatsoever

This dude rhymed "vanity fair" with "canopy beds". That's not hot, bro. That dude was struggling so hard to find a rhyme with "vanity fair" that he had to butcher the way that "fair" was pronounced to come up with something. Nothing is dope about that shit. And this is just one out of a million examples of him doing this stupid shit where he pronounces words like someone with a mental disability to force shit to rhyme. Him rhyming "oranges" and "syringes" comes to mind.

returning to "recovery"

That doesn't even BEGIN to cover all the lyrically awful songs Eminem has made over the years (Fack, My First Single, Ass like that).

Eminem simply can't be the best lyricist of all time because the best lyricist of all time would NEVER have as many blatant examples of absolute trash lyrics as Eminem has throughout his catalogue. That's not to say Em doesn't have some good stuff from time to time, he's a GOOD lyricist. That doesn't mean he's anywhere the level you give him credit for being

No, no they're not

Eminem has a good bar like 5 times out of every 100 punchlines. About 60 of those bars are just really average and forgettable and the other 35 are just straight up cringeworthy

See, this is how you write a supporting argument to your claim. You cite actual examples instead of just writing 10 paragraphs of pointless bullshit. I'm aware of legacy, and it's a good song. It doesn't make him the greatest lyricist of all time. Any reasonably good lyricist could do the same thing.

Eminem wrote 3 verses which is 48 lines off the same multi. Not gonna lie, that's impressive

Here's a topical piece I wrote, it's 50 lines off the same multi

So NOT ONLY did I write 2 more lines than Eminem did in that song, Eminem used a 4-syllable multi, the main rhyme is "Sky is falling".

That's inferior to my 50 bar piece that uses a 6-syllable multi.

Not to mention, Eminem butchered his 4 syllable multi

- 5 syllables
- 3 syllables
- 6 syllables
- somehow he added 2 extra lines
- 5 syllables

and a number of other examples where he downgraded to 3 syllables because he couldn't handle the difficulty of 4 syllables

not to mention this fucking gem

Meanwhile in that WHOLE song, Eminem arguably had like FIVE double entendres and none of them are good.

In my drop, I had about 45 punchlines and most of them were dope


So let's recap

Eminem:
48 lines off one multi
4 syllable multi
lots of errors and flaws execution of his multis
5 punchlines
all of them are ok

Me:
50 lines off one multi
6-syllable multi
no errors or flaws in the execution of my multis
45 punchlines
all of them are good or dope

and since Eminem is your vote for best lyricist, and the ONLY concrete evidence you're providing lyrically is "Legacy", and I clearly beat out Eminem in 5 out of 5 topics, and 4 of those aren't even REMOTELY subjective. It stands to reason that you should now believe that I am the greatest lyricist of all time.

I appreciate your words of encouragement

Yeah, you need concrete examples. Saying "it's true because I said so" doesn't work. That's how you end up like fucking Lars posting screenshots of his mom's bank account claiming it's his and saying, "it's true because I said so"


Nowhere in this source does Royce EVER claim Eminem is better, or even AS good as Royce. All it says is someone called him a culture vulture and Royce stepped up to defend his friend by saying

also from your same source:

I'm sure Royce isn't going to shit on Em because Em IS a good rapper, an ok lyricist, and Royce's close friend. Not to mention Royce has a financial interest in not talking shit about Em, because he makes more money with Em's support than he does without it.

but don't take my word for it, read it from the man himself:

More filler bullshit that doesn't actually mean anything or provide support for your argument

Of course they are, Eminem didn't invent punchlines. Royce isn't even a punchline rapper like that. But when it comes to rhymeschemes and flow he runs circles around Eminem

You just have this weirdly romanticized view of Eminem's lyrics being better than they are. I've already pointed at multiple examples that prove Eminem drops flawed rhymes ALL the time. That's how proofs work in logic and math, you have to actually prove that it's the case for all things that he's got "rain man attention to detail" and it only takes one concrete example to prove that's not true.

Again, more of you saying absolutely nothing at all

Eminem is the GOAT rapper the same way I'm the GOAT text battler

There was a glimmer there, and he had potential, but there's zero consistency and his legacy is highly overrated

Weird how so many of the elite rappers in thr game consider eminem one of the best ever but a bunch of white kids who likely were influenced by him at 1 time to try and write think he sucks

Stanswer declaring himself better than Eminem was definitely the only morsel of enjoyment I got out of that highly disappointing, Risperdal-fuelled rebuttal.

What a letdown. I liked you better when you ignored me.

You’ve offered no mathematic evidence to the contrary, sir

My evidence is clear

50 > 48
6 > 4
45 > 5

And you can count up all the syllables and see clearly that mine all match perfectly at 6 syllables and his do not. He has 3, he has 5, he’s all over the place.

You’ve provided one citation from Eminem. None of this is subjective “opinion”, these are numbers. My numbers are higher than Eminem’s.

That’s why your argument fails. I’ve proven this with logic, and you’re just speculating based off of nothing but your gut with nothing to show for it

this is just a dumb fucking conversation
you can make arguments for GOAT sports players. because you have stats. it’s pretty easy to quantify who the GOAT is.
this is music which is entirely subjective. there’s no “stats” to look at short
of album sales and if that’s the criteria, then eminem wins.
there is no criteria though as to who’s art is better than another aside from one’s own subjective opinion. so, there can be no right or wrong answer and therefore back to my original “this conversation is fucking dumb” assertion.

Disagree. We’re not talking about music, we’re talking about lyricism. As universe stated, it’s purely about the writing and not about song-making. Album sales are irrelevant

What are the aspects of writing?

Multisyllabic writing - number of syllables being used, it is more difficult to create rhymes with longer multis. Of course, it is. Because there are more sentences/words in the English language that end with with the rhyme, “dope” than there are sentences/phrases that end with the rhyme “sky is falling”

And because there are less sentences to choose from, it’s more difficult. There was an author who wrote an entire book without the letter “e” (the most common letter in the English language). This was obviously very difficult to do because it greatly limits the number of words you can use and sentences you can make.

If you don’t believe me, just try to write a 200 word short story or topical without using the letter “e”. Only by actually trying this can you empathize with my point. It’s not that I don’t think you CAN do it, you’re simply vastly underestimating the difficulty of it, which is easy to do for people who don’t challenge themselves. It’s easy for me to think I can run 15 km but it’s another thing to actually go out and do it.

When you loosen your restrictions, as eminem does when he breaks from using 4 syllables to use 3 syllables or 5 syllables, you’re increasing the number of words and phrases you can use. That’s like writing a book with no “e’s” and saying “eh maybe I’ll have SOME words that have the letter e”

And he does this even more-so when he allows himself to use words that don’t even rhyme altogether like him rhyming “fair” with “beds”

Punchlines/double entendres - it’s one thing to write a punchline, but it’s another thing to reverse-engineer a punchline from a rhyme. Not only are you coming up with a punchline, but you’re also constrained by the limitation of not being able to write words with the letter “e”

Do you disagree that writing 45 punchlines with that constraint is more difficult than writing 5 with that constraint? I don’t see how you believe that to be the case.

I’m really disappointed in you, des. You’re one of the few who I thought was smarter than this.

So youre saying that your 500 word couplets are on a diff level than eminems best?

Considering we’re talking about a 50-line verse where everything rhymes, I don’t think you even know what the word “couplet” means, frac.

Are you going to sit here and lie to my face that.your bars arent the length of forever and ever

lmao @ answer’s just straight uncut pretentiousness
oh, “best lyricism” isn’t subjective because similes
eat a fat dick

Let me speak to Culture

Lmao

You’ve offered nothing objective, des. This is theist level thinking

there’s no objectivity to be had here
you’re analyzing someone else’s shit to determine value
the value is only true for you, yourself
tell me why moby dick is better than the catcher in the rye now because of grammar and noun count

Eminem's longest bars in rap god:

So I wanna make sure somewhere in this chicken scratch I scribble and doodle enough rhymes
To maybe try to help get some people through tough times, but I gotta keep a few punchlines


My longest bars in that piece:

been fightin over capital since they set up an embassy @ the center of tel aviv
countin checks from the sheep got ‘em dead asleep, execs invested in feta cheese



So even if bar length had anything to do with lyricism, Eminem's longest bars are longer than my own. Meanwhile I had 2 internal rhymes and he had 1

Too soon.

So youre not going to acknowledge that rap god was entirely dependant on a beat build? You cant cherry pick certain bars from rap god without taking the entire song into consideration.

And even if you disagree with what i just said its proof that its subjective. Basically what destroyer is trying to say