My lord and savior Jesus....rawn you are like aids mixed with cancer to great threads.

Wrong about oral fixation. Run the cbt route!

Knuckle: On a scale of 1-10 how willing are you to never smoke another smoke again sir?

i dip

and i've been trying for like 6 months now

Tell me about your dipping habits please?

tin and a half every 2 days about, used to be a tin a day

what new stressor came about during the rise in your usage?>

Knucklehead - I dipped for years. While the path to quitting any addiction is different for each individual - if you are strong enough you can subjugate the path most take to 'kicking their habits' (from patches, to avoiding key 'triggers' in the day, etc), and cut to the chase.

The overarching trick is to remind yourself that you are choosing to allow yourself to be addicted. Literally, it is a natural trait in our species to "become addicted" to something -- much of it stems from our existence in a world bound by time, as deep as it may seem. We want to 'break out our time' by creating cycles with personal rewards, some big (annual trips to vegas), some small (happy hours on friday after a work week), some controlled (doing harder than normal drugs for a friend's bachelor party), some less monitored (dipping throughout the day).

By knowing this you can recognize the power and importance of "filling the void". Folks who 'fall off the wagon' tend to do so because they tried to quit through 'sheer will' - they suffer the most day-to-day as they avoid their 'rewards' - and one day allow themselves to manipulate themselves - to give themselves a 'reason they should be allowed to, say, dip again' (from a crazy finals week in school -- to an old friend in town visiting -- to the death of a loved one).

The people that are successful tend to fill the void with something else... many of us know a "smoker" who quit and starts again and quits again -- and many of us know one who quit and never picked it up again. The successful one often has 'changed their lifestyle' beyond just quitting smoking -- many times they end up being the epitome of health nuts, replacing their reward of a smoke with the reward of health, literally becoming addicted to exercise.

No matter how you go about quitting -this understanding can help ensure you get it done right. You clearly want to quit, and it is in your power to do so. THE HARDEST PART IS DONE FOR YOU MY FRIEND. That's what's cool tbh in your case, because when I quit chew, I didn't really want to quit, I just wanted reasons to not quit and recognized my addiction and was kinda disgusted that I went so long without recognizing it, so i quit out of sheer will and fell off the wagon a couple times before i was disgusted enough with my lack of success that I quit successfully eventually.

THE DETAILED APPROACH, I used to love chewing after a fucking good meal or while watching a movie -- my will wasn't as strong as it is now, so I had to just wait a while before I could watch a movie, i was a sucker for that shit. After a good meal - i just resorted to something else, 'filled that void with a lesser addiction'. If necessary you can move to nicorette for a few weeks or something, but in many ways it just keeps the individual 'one step away from going back to their original addiction'. Even sunflower seeds are helpful for chewers -- but should be used temporarily, because again, it is just one step away (even with no nicotine, one is reinforcing their habit, giving their subconscious a reason to believe the addiction is being filled, so never truly overcoming the addiction WHILE not ever truly being satisfied at the same time).

So knowing you should 'fill the void with something else', but that 'what you chose to fill it with will essentially just replace your addiction' --- the BEST way to achieve success here, imo at least, is by "becoming addicted to the feeling not having addiction"....

Again, I know it's deep -- but when you feel that urge, turn that pain into pleasure -- it is all a mind game after all.

The only two things people are physiologically "addicted" to is dopamine and serotonin -- it's all in your head, and they can be triggered through physical action which triggers thought OR directly through thought itself. So everytime you want to dip, remember that feeling of 'taking a dip out'. When shits stuck in your teeth, when you are no longer enjoying the feeling of 'satisfying the craving' -- when you almost want to have another one right away, but also don't want to because you just had one, so you feel like you cannot be satisfied either way. Hang on to that feeling for a minute - and then remember that you didn't just have a dip - and that you are stronger for it, and that your "next dip is to come" somewhere down the line, and when you feel its time to have that dip, then go through the same process of remembering all over again.


Man sorry for the long post - i just have an affinity for those addicted to dip since i was really bad myself for a while. I also know my suggestions weren't "text book, 'how to quit things'", but hope maybe there's something in there that helps ya - and either way, good luck pawtna.

^ in more simplified terms....you have the addiction and the habit.

fight the habit first.....once it is weakened, teh addiction becomes much easier to beat.

TRUTH bro.

as you know, it's what I respect about your approach the most, since it's an area I'm working on. I share your affinity and even some of your savvy in psychology, metaphysics, spirituality -- but when I try to help someone, I jump into the deep-end, and you are much more effective at "jumping to their end" then guiding them along the way.

Interestingly, i created the habit of 'jumping into the deep end' because I believed what you already know - I believed I would 'set an extreme end-point' for the individual to reach at their time, in their pace.... What I didn't realize was that I actually, in some cases, inhibited their progress because I overwhelmed them by "going to deep" when they were trying to get comfortable in the shallows.

It's the page in your book I most admire, since it's the one my current chapter is lacking. I recognize the big picture, but am not near as effective at guiding others to see it --- it is why you are (1) more adept at establishing rapport (to another point you made), and (2) MORE CONCISE.

But, I do recognize my pattern, so I'll change it. In fact, I recognize that the way you are already helping knucklehead vs. how my braindump perfectly reflects the differences I'm talking about haha. Even if the end points are the same, the line will be drawn more effectively by "being a half level further than they are now".

Very astute brotha.

Veritas, based on the little (or much), you know about me -- do you think I would be ashamed to call you?

There is no shame in engaging in a conversation with the wise; and also what little (or much) I have left to hide is exactly what needs to be revealed - so no need for the confidentiality disclaimer either my friend.

(ps - updated to highlight, not only will I call you at some point - I'd have a damn weekly conference call with someone like you dude. i know what you get and get what i don't, and if i can take shit away from my own echo, then there is only more I would take away from a convo with you homeslice).

Sorry for all the posts in your thread V - clearly trying to add to the thread vs. taking anything away from it ;)

But I have to say - once the veil is removed, you and rawn are going to appreciate the similarities in your former differences. I like you guys for the same depth, you've just beaten the monster few even see - but hey, you know what the old you would need to hear more than I do clearly, so perhaps i'm dissecting something that doesnt need to be... just wanted you both to know, you both got depth, and i like/respect you both more than I do 95% of the people I encounter - so it's intersting to see you two 'go at' each other.

in fact, Rawn, you should consider calling him. You guys are at ends because of similar beginnings yo.

well said nam.

tbh I am not wise. I just do not talk about what I do not know...and I read between the lines

you would not be ashamed to call me

and i believe in Occam's razor.

consider Jesus: he could have told people the inner workings of the universe....but talked to lawyers about the law, talked to the pharisees about moses, talked to farmers about farming.....

the more universal is the always the more simple...and thus so complicated.

Jesus stated that he spoke in parables on purpose SO THAT SOME WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND!!! chew on that bro.

why does addiction not affect me veritas? i can pick up and drop weed and cigs whenever I want. ATM I don't smoke at all mon-thurs and it doesn't bother me one bit.

Wise is somewhat relative based on how we use the term. Yet, recognizing you are not wise IS wise in itself, and saying it is wise for a multitude of other reasons. Once again I neglect the importance of rapport - but do firmly believe that by being truthful consistently it is built inevitably (just not as efficiently).

Did Jesus really state that he said it so that "some would not understand"?? Amazing.

Using parables to remain concise, timeless, and tailored to a an audience to decode the deeper meaning based on what the analogies mean to them. Speaks well to your approach.

It is also supported by even those who neglected the bible increase their awareness. The simple messages actually correspond with the greatest truths and patterns in all things within creation -- a language we naively think we understand at all points in our lives, and as awareness matures, retrospect reveals how shortsighted we were.

While I've recognized that shortsightedness on my part, and can appreciate the pattern to the degree that I have every reason to look back in the future and see my current understanding as shortsighted as well, I never heard that IT WAS BY DESIGN.

Never knew that Jesus actually said that, but it makes sense to those that "can hear".

What's great about it is, those that truly hear, understand why corruption in (any and all) organized religion is natural for our species, but that corruption should not undermine the providence of certain universal truths which the religions/philosophies/world views are built upon.

After all - all souls speak a different language, but if one can humble themselves to truly 'hear' several languages, the patterns in belief systems are identical at some juncture. Whether new age (over-reliance on the inward) or catholic (over-reliance on the outward), or atheist (over- and under- reliance on both) -- the conclusions only appear different because of our instinct to individuate and differentiate --- but in the end, they are more similar than they are different.

So many wars were/are fought over the 'source of truth', when to your point, truth is known when it is received not how it was provided.

Hope others take the time to chew on this talk as well, but hey - you know I love it either way lol. Awesome shit.

I am going on a "be concise" mission. I don't even recognize what i've done until after I hit submit.

fuck.

talking to my echo, while rewarding, ends up being a very long conversation. haha

the difference came for me when I realized that Christianity was a fellowship not a religion.

MAtthew 13

Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14

And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Isa 6:9 John 12:40 Acts 28:26

15

For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Isa 6:10 Mark 4:12 Acts 28:27

16

But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Whenever people tell me this, I ask them to be psychologically honest....when you are very stressed.....do you smoke?

I smoke and take drugs because I am very depressed. I tell this to people online because it makes me seem interesting, and like I don't care what people think, but really I crave attention to compensate for the fact I'm just a waste of space.

Go.

nope, I am rarely very stressed though and i can take my mind off things by busying myself in various other ways. e.g. seeing my girl, playing football or surfing.

jesuits...perhaps you are the exception to the rule?

what I have experienced is that most people who "can control" their addictions, eventually return to greater usage during periods of psychological trauma.

Damn.....v just nailed my smoking "addiction" on the head. But it still seems far less severe then others....like jesuits said i can smoke an not smoke whever i want....im talking cigs....i RARELY smoke...but i always cop a pack b4 i go out for a big night of drinking....but then i could go a month without even thinking about a cig. . Tho i will say when im stressed.....which has been seldom as of late, i will resort to smoking. What is the significance to this and am i not still far less addicted to cigs then the.norm....i mean there r degrees, r there nit?