Originally Posted by rapgenius

Biggie on “Kick in the Door”:

Your reign on the top was short like leprechauns
As I crush so-called Willies, thugs and rapper dons
Jay-Z on “The Ruler’s Back”:

Your reign on the top was shorter than leprechauns
You can’t fuck with Hov, what kind of X you on?
The minimal, non-transformative alterations don’t add any value to Biggie’s original; rather, they suspiciously serve to mask the line’s origin…

Biggie on “You’re Nobody Till Somebody Kills You” (Jay must really like this song!):

Stop your blood-clot crying
The kids, the dog, everybody dying, no lying
which Jay-Z bites unaltered on “D.O.A.”:

Stop your blood-clot crying
The kid, the dog, everybody dying, no lying
And so on and so on. Jay claims he’s honoring Biggie, but the untransformed, verbatim bites seem to stifle creativity; at times, he seems to use Biggie lines as filler, which is disrespectful to B.I.G. and Jay both.

In addition to the “artfully transformative”-factor, another worthwhile consideration in judging the merit of a bite is the recognizability of the line bitten: if Jay copies a well-known line, the claim of homage becomes more credible. If he were to quote a classic Biggie line — one that every white person in America knows, say, “It was all a dream, I used to read Word Up Magazine” or “I love it when you call me big poppa” then purists wouldn’t have a problem.

But he never does that…

One could contend that Jay is trying to draw attention to lesser-known jewels through his knock-offery. But an amateur rap audience is unlikely to catch the reference, tending to give Jay-Z credit for clever lines that are actually Biggie’s. To make matters worse, Jay-Z’s Biggie-bites are most often found in his radio-designed singles, which command a novice audience.

Originally Posted by El Pancake (Post 318175)

Jay IS paying homage, though. I don't know how anyone can listen to those lines and honestly think he's biting. He's blatantly alluding to Biggie when he does that. Although NaS' delivery on that line in Ether made it work.

Originally Posted by rapgenius

Biggie, "Victory"
“I perform like Mike, anyone Tyson, Jordan, Jackson”

Jay-Z, "Niggas in Paris"
“I’m liable to go Michael, take your pick; Jackson, Tyson, Jordan, game 6.”

Originally Posted by El Pancake

"GAIS GAIS, he just paying homage MANY MANY times in EVERY album he's pressed in multiple songs across his whole discography. It's not lots and lots of biting, its just lots and lots of homage."

Originally Posted by El Pancake (Post 318184)

LOL

YES

Because there are "facts" here. This is entirely opinion based. You don't know. You have a bias, so you're going to say any line that is remotely close to a "bite" is a bite, dead stop. Whereas I am of the opinion that they're for the most part homages. This could be an argument that goes on for pages. The end result will be a bunch of posts, a handful of sentences, some quoted lines, and neither of us changing our opinion. So I, instead, posted something that did not present an argument. I just posted a random post. I would like to engage you in a fierce debate about an artist I don't care that much about, except I wouldn't like to do that because internet.

I think you're wrong. You think I'm wrong. It's all well and good. I will entertain this frivolity no longer, sir. Do not think you have won. I won before you even thought.

I bid you good day.

Originally Posted by King Ra. (Post 318215)

Nas. Nuff said. Cam'ron's "Swaggerjack" did justice though. I listen to Jay, he cool, but Nas is THAT nigga. While he may not have an album that sold as much as Jays, he still went 9 albums straight platinum, without being a mainstream bubble gum junky. Holler.

Ether.

Originally Posted by Art (Post 318189)

nas doesnt need to 'pay homage' to be the better lyrical miracle.

Originally Posted by Destroyer (Post 318220)

ether is so far beyond any other diss track
It's like the fucking Bible of diss tracks but if the Bible was true
I don't give a fuck what else Jay-Z did in his whole motherfucking career, nobody is coming back from ether

Originally Posted by oats (Post 318349)

I much preferred Hit Em Up, or Bully, to Ether.

I can't say I prefer one artist to the other, cuz each have albums in their discography that I love as well as albums that are shit. Illmatic is the best of either of their albums though. Blueprint and Reasonable Doubt better than the majority of Nas' material though.

Originally Posted by Destroyer (Post 318095)

I thought shoulders was on the black album?

Originally Posted by Bladed Thesis (Post 318178)

bullshit. He takes little known lines of Biggie's and then spins them to hide where they came and fit himself. Why would he tailor the line to be about himself if he's paying homage? He's not, he's biting small little lines that aren't from popular Biggie songs and DOESN'T GIVE credit or EVER say its from Biggie or an homage to Biggie until he got caught.

That's not how you pay homage...

Originally Posted by Certain (Post 318353)

"Hit 'Em Up" is terrible. The only good line is the plainly stated "You claim to be a player, but I fucked your wife." Plus the Outlawz are the worst.

Originally Posted by Brian Bryan (Post 318358)

lmao @Certain judging diss tracks like they were text battles

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