yea i don't know what poets talking about. the blueprint holds up great, 0 problems with ye's beats on it.

bink had the best beats on it tho.

I disagree about ye's beats on blueprint..they aged well to me....

I think reasonable doubt aged poorly

Gtfoh

D'Evils > X's whole catalogue.

I cant respect someone who doesn't appreciate reasonable doubt

This x1000.

Ready to die.
Reasonable doubt.
Illmatic.

In that order.

Illmatic
Reasonable Doubt
...
....
.....
Ready to die

No way reasonable doubt is better than ready to die...

Man I ain't hating..Jay just ain't my cup of tea..dont understood where this jay is goat shit comes from.....I mean NOBODY was saying this shit prior to say 2005....so what has he released since then to make him the greatest ever all of a sudden??

2nd that

all dmx albums are better than jayz's shit.

Get at me dog.....is one if the rawest first singles ever

He one of the only remaining/alive mainstream enemies 2pac named, so staying power was established

The takeover bounce back from ether showed he could story of Adidon a heavy hitter like nas, instant top spot

Locks down beyonce, a female who hasn't ran through the whole industry, gives him depth

Various important media contributions, most notably American gangster

4:44 showed he always knew what he was doing

Everything is love is the victory lap

So the fact he is a 2pac enemy n still alive has something to do with being the best ever?

Losing to nas..who is and has always been better than him has something to do with best ever?

Ummm who he married has something to do with best ever?

Media contributions has what to do with music?

4.44 showed what?

Man you just made the worst GOAT arguments ever....

Wtf man a 4 year old debating that afroman is goat could make better points than that bullshit

Lol yeah just take away all his achievements and he ain't shit

U smokin crack again?
U better go put that "slippin" on and rethink that thought nigga.

Agree.
I was never a jay fan back when we had an active hiphop catalogue to listen to. Now that the new age brings wack talent... Of course jay seems like a god xs 1000p0. But he not. Hes the same jay from the 90s that you woulda picked nas mobb deep pac or biggie over. Just them niggas aint around no more. So lets be reall

Your arguments sucked.

You suppose to be arguing why he the greatest rapper ever and you talking about who he married and the fact 2pac dissed him and he still alive

You seriously think that's strong arguments for being the best mc ever?

Go jump in a lake nigga

trying to explain jay z's greatness is like trying to explain lebrons

if you can't see it your blinded by your own bias and hatred.

there are people better at different aspects, but no one has ever put them together at the level he has, with such longevity.

im still trying to figure out where your getting these random dates, it went from a new age fad of calling him goat to 2005?

meanwhile black album dropped in 03 with his first "retirement" and every rapper was out talking about how the GOAT retired.

I can't explain it any better then that he's a brand name. You get the same reaction saying snoop Dogg name in public you know who he is and what he's about. He ain't top 5 richest musicians being a junkie he works hard and makes quality music what kind of flow you want he just dropped contender for AOTY less then a month ago what more do you want he is responsible for kanye's growth and continues to contribute to him and countless others what more do you want nigga could of rapped with twista when he was fucking with jaz-o WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT

It's quite simple, just stop calling them the goats and comparing them with the real GOATS and you'd never have to worry about explaining anything.

you fuck with vinnie paz in 2018

stop.

Im the goat for.christs sakes. End thread

If u count collab albums Jay has nearly 20 albums lol even without he has 13

If u want to argue it's dark an hell is hot is a classic that's one thing but to even put him in the same stratosphere is a joke.....I honestly thought this was one tho and still do

X has 2 albums that are even listenable

Jay started from nothing and is now the president of def jam.......dmx is now the mayor crack pipe county

Rocafella as a conglomerate was longer lasting more influential had more volume and was all around just flat out doper than ruff Ryder's

Idk what album sales numbers ur quoting as tho it's even relevant but jay outsold x 100mil to 30mil

Jay was involved in the best rap beef of all time and consensus in the hip hop community is all tho Nas won the battle w ether jay won the war with super ugly and blueprint2

X never had a notable beef because he was only even notable for a couple years.

Eminem's first 3 album run sold more copies and had more classic volume then x for Christ sake

Jay had better production, more classics, more volume, more sales, more longevity, more influence

I mean it's literally laughable to even categorize them in the same echelon. It's dark an hell is hot is maybe a classic and flesh of my flesh is a good album but that doesn't make a case for him to even be in the top 20? Get a fucking grip

Dont get me wrong. Jay the goat when it comes to hiphop entreprenuer shit. Hands down untouchable business wise. He just never been my favorite artist. There was a time when i couldnt even listen to jay. Its only been within the last 8 years i started fucking with him. Went back listened to all his shit and ya hes a god for sure. But not the goat. I mean thats arguable obviously. And a lot of people will say he is. I just cant.

Idk. Its tough to dissagree cause of his career and position. But id throw so many other artists in rotation before id throw him in. Thats just me. Dmx being one of those. If X wasnt such a crackhead.. Who knows what he could have done. He was making pac moves. Doing music. Movies. The whole 9 yards. That cracj ruined his ass. Unfortunately. But it is what it is.

anyone COULDVE been the goat tho? just happens that jay IS.

dmx is obv a losing case but who else do u even have to put up against jay?

my friend recently posed kanye against jay.......which I disagreed with....but he atleast had an arguable case

:: never liked jay the biter ::

Nas is light years better than Jay Z

And he anailated jay in a battle....

Illmatic and it was written shit, on Jay-Z whole body of work.

Tupac is easily better Goat material than Jay-Z

Jay-Z is the equivalent to a NBA player who scored 19 points a game for 15 or 16 straight seasons...he is a great player...but never was the best player in the league during any era...so the longevity puts him in the talks. ..but you can't be the goat when you never was the best at any point

If u want to have Nas vs jay thread just look up an old one

U wanted to put x against jay

That's dead


Illmatic is the best hip hop album ever....that's fine but that's the only top tier shit he ever made

Saying jay wasn't the best at any point of his entire career is absurd and only said to fit ur position. It has no basis in reality.

I'd be willing to have a debate about someone being more logical for the goat title but so far u giving me dmx Nas and pac ...I mean..... It's just not even reasonable

And I fuck w dmx and pac heavy even Nas gets spin but they aren't on Jay's level he's just all encompassing whereas none of them have even a shred of his depth or influence into the full realm of hip hop that he does and I haven't heard a case proving otherwise not even close.

There is no point in furthering the discussion. This thread shouldve been closed after my first post lol.

People tend to equate their favorite rapper with the goat. Thats not how it works. My favorite rapper was sean price. But putting him into the top 50 would take mental gymnastics i dont possess.

So just stop

Find anywhere that i said X was the goat or had a better career than Jay. I never said that...I said its dark n hell is hot is better than any jay album and that in the late 90's X ran new York.


Now if you want to discuss Goats...there are easily 5 names ahead of Jay-Z if we keep the discussion strictly music. All arguments for jay always resorts back to business.

Nas body of work is better than Jay z.
Tupac died at 24 but he has 3 classic albums.
Biggie died young both albums classic...

Biggie may not of had enough material to get goat status but he was clearly better than Jay

I don't really like the goat arguments to be honest...its just to me JAY-Z as a business man makes ppl label him more than he is

And Jay Z had more influence on hip-hop than 2pac? Are you serious?

Jay-z Is trash compared to DMX.

Pac had the most influential impact on hip hop. Jay Z and Nas have a major impact on hip hop as well. I mean, every successful artists has had some form of impact on HIP HOP if you think about it because they all brought something different to the game. Jay Z is probably one of the more successful ones, tho a long side of Puffy because their record labels. Puffy was trash but he even had a impact on HIP HOP.

Because of Pac, the whole west coast/east coast rivalry began. PAC was hip hop.

PAC THE GOAT.

We established pac the all time goat I thought we were confirming why Jay is ONE of the goats

ive only ever conceded that pac is top 5 and better than big ...jay the all time goat...I cant contribute to this thread further tho because I just don't feel like there is a level exchange of knowledge occurring.

You mean opinion, yes?

I mean there are subjective opinions that I am willing to take into consideration but if we are considering a title of goat there needs to be objective criterion in place to be able to determine one so subjective opinions cannot be the only factor in the discussion. it cant even really be a large portion of the discussion honestly.

if we were discussing who is your personal favorite or goat then it would be relevant but if we are attempting to identify a sole artist to be recognized as the best overall artist of all time then it needs to be considered objectively.

Oh I wasn’t saying anything about the Goat. Just that I like X better than j.

Carry on.

This is the John Stockton paradox.

Who in here has been considered goat that doesn't deserve the respect of being in the argument

who did u propose nas pac and big? honestly id only accept pac in the discussion (and he loses)

When Jay dies pacs body of work and legacy will still echo louder. Jay top 5 overall still but, I guess it's how you rank energy.

I feel pac sacrificed himself. Went all or nothing for the game. That's a level of commitment you dont see in anyone else, at least not combined with that talent.

Jay is a goat in his own right, but drake is on the same trajectory that Jay was does that mean drake will be the goat too?

Jay top 5 but not undisputed number 1.