bro, that's why I feel this way, because I watched it happen
and I remember pictures and news stories in the following weeks that showed blocks of cars that were burnt out surrounding the wtc, not crushed, burned.
what burned those cars down to the metal? falling debris?
why were there forge-hot fires in the rubble until December of the same year?

you understand all of that has been answered a million times over right

in a way that gels with the laws of physics?
point me to some links bro

I was 19 and 2 weeks into bootcamp when the planes hit. We were getting ready to do a march for some veterans that where visiting ft. Jackson. When all of a sudden my drill sergeant orders us out of formation and directs us back to the barracks. Once at the barracks he says " all recruits from new york or those who have relatives in new york come with us" mind you they havent told us shit at all. So the recruits go with the drill sergeant for about an hour slowly they start trickling in. The only thing eAch of them said was there was a terrorist attack in new york.

That was it for the next couple of hours. No one said shit cuz no one new shit. That night they huddled us in a room and told us simply the same shit the recruits did. Theres been a terrorist attack in new york city and alot of people have died. Thats it. Only other thing they tallked to us about is going to war and the possibility of us being the first wave of troops to go if that did happen. I went through boot came never knowing how horrible the attack was. i didnt even know planes hit and the towers went down until i came home 6 months later.

yeah, I dont want to downplay the lives lost
it was a terrible thing

I just dont think reading there names every yr helps
I think it just propagates more hate for the arab nations

keeps the wound from healing
picking the scab and shit


plus it FUCKS traffic up
like wtf

why did u drive here from PA for this u scumbag weirdo

I was on an in town class trip to the library (idk). My family lived on a military base so a pretty large section of the school were military kids. I remember we had to go back early, not really knowing why. Once we got back we were told what happened. I remember a handful of kids got picked up from school. Parents freaking out, being in a military area and all. I remember being annoyed my folks didn't take me out of school. Had to learn English and shit. Got home and was pretty pissed Fox wasn't showing the Simpsons that night due to coverage of the attack. I was a pretty dumb shit as a child.

Also will rep diode and bags later for their vehement and correct lambasting of the "truthers" itt. Fight the good fight.

they said it was jet fuel but yea it makes no sense

what do u think it was?

man, I don't have any answers
I just know when shit doesn't make sense

Lol Destroyer pls

I do remember the fires burning for mad long. that wasn't a hoax
@Diode

explain that bro


Im a skeptic by nature but I have no dog in this fight


I am curious tho

Jet fuel has a high flashpoint, avgas which is what is used in piston aircraft has a lower flashpoint and is more explosive.
But jet a which is most common in airliners doesn't burn and melt shit, its like kerosene almost. I worked around all that shit for years,
I don't know what would cause shit to burn that long or that hot but I can guarantee from my own personal experience that it's not jet fuel

To me it looked just like the Oklahoma City bombing....

first, i hate all of you buffoons

i was in 6th grade science class. a teacher came in frantic talking to the other teacher, we were told what was going on. that a plane hit a building. ding. classes change. went to social studies aka history for children. we watched the second plane hit in there.

but word

all of you guys sound ridiculous. i understand your ignorance, but as a dude who loves conspiracy theories and has looked into everything way too much i can assure you the official stories make the most sense, because its what actually happened

the jet fuel is relatively minor. it caused the initial fire from the explosions, the fire then BURNS and everything in the building fuels it. these massive fires in buildings as big as a city block create the tremendous amount of heat needed to weaken the steel, and start the collapse

its not rocket science

if you want to get into conspiracy theories about WHO made it all happen, that is fine. do what you do. but if your story deviates from hijacked planes taking the towers down you are an imbecile

apropos of nothing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bdr_2IAJWU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w73qxCxRnWE

Gotta admit I laughed. I live in the state (but not the city).
It's a terrible tragedy and horrible, but that doesn't mean these comments aren't funny (or, in Hush's case-- true)

At work today I thought about the kind of reaction I'd get if I said to people, like a holiday: "hey, happy 9/11!"

So it's a horrible attack but honestly, I think tagging the Pentagon is actually pretty impressive for those terrorist nutjobs.

I don't know if it says more about how much our country epically failed (by allowing a plane to nail the Pentagon) or how well-executed their plan was. Both. I guess.

All I know is aside from the tragedy itself, there were a lot of different kind of tragedies as a result... most notably ripping our bill of rights to shreds, particularly the 4th amendment.

The definition and goal of the "terrorism" was to scare us into abandoning our "freedoms", and to bleed us dry financially as we go chase every moozlim with an AK47 on middle east mountaintops.. Bin Ladin said as much.

To say nothing of the hundreds of thousands of lives lost in Iraq, the destabilization of that region, our own dead and wounded soldiers, and the ridiculously bloated and overreaching security state which came about after people&politicians lost their minds post 9-11... Now of course, much of what I have said did not HAVE to be the course of events... but alas it was the resulting occurances.

Religion is fucked up.
Radical Islam just happens to be by far the worst and most dangerous, at this present moment in history.
As Sam Harris says, what is lost on non-religious folks, or religious moderates, is these people actually BELIEVE these things - (Jihard, Martyr, 72 virgins, etc).

Of course to you it sounds ludicrous. How could people believe this stuff? &Believe that the book they base their life and actions around was written by the creator of the universe, and is a completely 100% perfect book.
"Violent Extremists" aren't really "perverting" the religion/faith... They are actually the most adherent! If u read the text.

whoever wishes to neg me, that is your right... but i will not "shut up"... here's an idea, I'll shut up if you tell me in what ways I'm wrong.

sorry if talking about these things candidly or factually is unsettling. i mean.. not sorry!

i am human tho.
was a senior in HS. 1st period ADVANCED PLACEMENT English class.

my teacher was kinda like all of us students, watchin TV wonderin wats goin on.
then her colleague the other more eccentric english teacher comes bursting in the door hysterical shourting "they got the pentagon they got the pentagon now too"

Surely a case where her own emotions made her forget she was in charge of children 1/3rd her age... because that got everyone kinda worried as fuck. I remember my physiological reaction. kinda got all flush.

had it a little bit again about 15 mins. ago, when i turned on the news which was replaying the actual coverage from 2001 of the plane hitting.
hadn't seen that shit in years&years. even tho had seen it so many times when it happened.

many people died. sad.

"That's my country, yo."
So, I felt that inside too, even tho I was rambling here, about our country's obscene reaction to the incident, and religion, etc


Then 3rd period (AP)math class (this is not a lie or a joke), my teacher... she was always really fkn obsessed and neurotic.. and we all walked in with deer-in-the-headlights eyes as she LITERALLY said "i donno what's going on in the world out there, but we're not watching TV we've got 40 minutes of calculus."
unrealsies

9/11 aka bring your plane to work day

http://tinyurl.com/olygjhf

comprehensive. a 'terror' attack is nothing more than a semantic nuance.

touche'


But wtf with the Piers Morgan? U agree with that?

Yeah, and Hitler made up like .00000000000000000000000000000000001% of the German population. Did a lot of damage tho, no?

Just because the vast majority of Muslims aren't violent terrorists doesn't mean that literal interpretations of the text and the crazy attitudes surrounding the extreme devotions of that religion aren't responsible for MASSIVE violence, deaths, poverty, suppression of rights, lack of education, etc etc

Let's not forget the "concentric circles"... it's about "culture" too... you don't have to be a terrorist to tacitly support it, or, stand silent or neutral, or be too afraid of TERRORISTS AND CLERICS to speak out rationally..

The evidence is all over the place no matter what Piers Morgan may say

ISIS is fundamentally based in Islam
So is Sharia Law
So are all those "tiny" terrorist groups who I guess are no big deal even tho people all over are dying&suffering


At the risk of falling victim to the oversimplified&shallow liberal vs. conservative paradigm in this country, I will say that I am "liberal" on sooo many things but MOST liberals fail to understand that rigid Islam conflicts directly with human rights, and all the things that they stand for.

So, in the name of diversity and political correctness, they(many liberals) forget exactly what it is they stand for.

I don't have a problem with any individual person who is Muslim. I do have a big "problem" with their religion though.

as an outsider i don't really see the liberal/conservative divide as anything more the typical disruptive propaganda/propagating bullshit partisans can latch onto and argue over minutiae for hours while missing all the actual issues in the world. so i won't go into that.

i think you're overlooking inevitable causation: as if current affairs aren't directly correlative with years of aggressive foreign policy - some clandestine, others paraded as just. if i'm to buy into ISIS/ISIL (which I don't) i could look at the number of coups on middle eastern soil - backed by america/israel (in alleged preemptive defence of the latter) - displacing a group of war-torn young men who wander around with no real sense of purpose while their countries continue to get fucked -- eventually uniting under some shit brainstormed banner named after Osiris' wife and making big budget videos of them burning pilots alive. because that makes sense.

basically, with that picture i say this: don't espouse views demonizing an entire people based on the actions of a few. because it's easy. be intelligent. don't do that.

i don't think that's piers morgan, either. not that it matters. except it does matter because i'd never quote nor appropriate anything to do with the braindead piece of shit talentless parasite ever. he is not capable of offering insight.

add. muslims/arabs = 21st century niggers. fashionable to hate now.

@Eng
First off I'm grateful issues like these can be discussed rationally and based on substance. Rare nowadays. Thx

Regarding Piers Morgan, lol, I think you're right; it's not him... when I was writing my post I thought it was him at first... your opinion of him made me chuckle and I must agree.

But you're right, technically "who" said it is irrelevant, what's important is the message, and I can "see" the case being made, even though I think it misses the ball in some important respects.

About the liberal/conservative thing being a BS distraction- you're absolutely right which is why I prefaced with "at the risk of... simplified paradigm... etc.
The reason I "went there" is because often times (w/ respect to liberal v. conservative) there are some "matching up" with the mindsets/thoughts, on the top layer of this multi-layered issue. Poorly worded but I hope you get the drift.
I.e.
"i think you're overlooking inevitable causation: as if current affairs aren't directly correlative with years of aggressive foreign policy - some clandestine, others paraded as just. if i'm to buy into ISIS/ISIL (which I don't) i could look at the number of coups on middle eastern soil - backed by america/israel (in alleged preemptive defence of the latter) - displacing a group of war-torn young men who wander around with no real sense of purpose while their countries continue to get fucked -- eventually uniting under some shit brainstormed banner named after Osiris' wife and making big budget videos of them burning pilots alive. because that makes sense."

What I mean is, unlike some shallow conservatives who hate because of brown skin/ xenophobia/ irrational fear of Sharia Law in US, etc etc, I understand what you're saying. You are right; you're just vastly underestimating the role that their religion is playing in all of this. Many ISIS fighters LITERALLY believe that this "coming together of the Caliphate" is precipitating end-times and prophecies in the Koran. That's not opinion. It's what they say and believe.

Has U.S., Israeli (and earlier,British- read;Iran) foreign policy contributed enormously to some of these major global problems? Absolutely. No doubt. But these matters are not mutually exclusive. Far from it. Radical Islam plays a huge role AS WELL.
There are more Christian Palestinians than people realize, also persecuted by Israel. Have you heard of any Christian Suicide bombers over the last couple decades?
Have you ever heard of a Tibetan Buddhist(terribly persecuted by China over the decades) blowing himself up on a Chinese bus full of civilians?
Beliefs matter.
I'm not excusing Hypocritical/Terroristic/Violent foreign policies by the US and Israel. I'm saying That Alone cannot explain the terrible things going on in much of the Muslim world.

When little girls trying to get an education are burned with acid in the face
When women have no rights (can't drive, can't vote)
When apostates are threatened with death (or in some cases actually killed)
When fatwas are issued on WRITERS or filmmakers
Honor killings, Killing gays, Killing "infidels"... (or, if not killing then persecuting)
...I could keep going....
These things are not the result of repressive foreign powers. They are the direct result of the religion.

Some poverty is due to reactionary ideals and adhering to the rules of an ancient text; not solely due to repressive foreign powers, or said powers propping up brutal regimes. BOTH are causes

[It's kind of like the Patriots in the NFL. YES they have great coaching. Great game-planning. Great culture of winning.... But they also have been docked draft picks and been fined and have faced litigation for breaking the rules. Cheating. In some cases blatant, in some cases "skirting the line"... I'm going off topic (this is for another thread).. but the point is.. why is it 1 or the other?? It's BOTH]

Yes there are hundreds of millions-- a billion or more-- Muslims who don't practice violence.
But there are enough devoted/radical/religiously-motivated clerics, fighters, rulers, and yes,disaffected youth who also have societal factors. But the religion is there, front and center.... enough to be a big problem.

"don't espouse views demonizing an entire people based on the actions of a few. because it's easy. be intelligent. don't do that."

Again. I don't have anything against an entire people. I "have something" against their entire religion. And if those two things are to be equated, then perhaps in some way that is making my case. If their unfounded religious beliefs play "that big a part" of their lives. The less role it(literal interpretation religion)plays, the more likely they are not in my sphere of what I'm talking about here. Lol.

Listen to what people SAY, and observe what they DO.
When they say they are killing infidels, creating a caliphate, instituting Sharia, in the name of Allah and the Koran... I take them at their word!! Crushing foreign policy from the West- to be sure- can contribute to the "environment"/landscape, but do not discount what they do,& what they say about why they do it. (And when I say "they" I do not mean all Muslims. I mean extremists).

Ok. Math. Let's assume those numbers aren't lowballs.
.003% of 1.6 billion is 48,000. That IS a lowball in my opinion. But nearly 50,000 people involved in brutal & violent groups/movements. BIG PROBLEM

To say nothing of the unknown % (too high) who quietly approve, quietly justify, or are *scared into silence due to threats of violence. (< rap line lol)

Or the % Not on the front lines, but who spew propaganda and/or literal lines of holy text... inspiring this stuff.. Sure the actions of the evil West makes it easier for them; but again, not mutually exclusive.

Or the % who haven't acted (yet), but swallow this stuff hook line&sinker.

^I'd say you can easily add another 0 on that already low #. 480K almost Half a mil.. Extreme.

It's a multi-layered issue. Which is why we need clear-thinking people who base things on reason. This is a war of ideas, and rationality has been losing in the Muslim world for centuries.
For the most part, bullets and bombs and prisons exacerbate the problem. You've got no argument from me on that.
I just ask you to perhaps read or learn what's in the holy text... which is not to be discounted, when extremists LIVE by it, view it as the perfect word of the creator of the universe, and act accordingly.

This one got hit by a gopro drone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wfpRO9bTfo

Jet fuel burns at 1500 degrees. Steel melts at 2750 degrees. Any questions? They lied and waaaay too many people lost their lives for nothing but American greed. Go fuck yourself diode.

Steel becomes malleable at 1000F when it has kilotons of weight on it.

This "controlled demolition" theory just makes no sense. If it were a conspiracy, wouldn't they have benefited from the towers falling being messy as possible? Wouldn't have the towers falling to a side and demolishing a whole city block made for an even better spectacle?

Just needed the insurance money and a reason to go to war lol