if that's your belief, then I feel like you're part of the problem

If this were 10 years ago, that would be very spot on. We do have to address the fact that society has changed a lot since those days that you reference. If we have a Democratic president (and we do) we have to seriously consider that the tide has changed (and it has). What bothers me is that the current trend in politics is kinda like a hipster movement. The whole "change" thing, like we just want to change more so than actually considering what our endgame is with the change.

We have a black president... not only can gay people get married but just by admitting you're gay now makes you a "hero"... confederate flags are banned... the majority of folks are cool with abortion... and so on and so on.

So why are people still mad about the past if the majority of people are so progressive now?

Is there anybody here that doesn't plainly see how the oppressed could ultimately one day be the oppressors themselves?



Before you answer, consider the lessons learned through our history...

https://scottystarnes.files.wordpres...1347148728.jpg

My problem is that religion is made up bullshit that's it.
nothing should ever be influenced by it because it's just stories
it's great stories, don't get me wrong, but so is Harry Potter
it doesn't mean Hogwarts is real, and certainly doesn't mean that people should organize into factions representing the four schools of hogwarts and battle each other for supremacy because they believe in the philosophies of Ravenclaw over Slytherin.
And following the Bible is equally ridiculous because it has just about as much merit, maybe even less considering its extensive edits. But, it's a childish idea the idea of a father figure in the sky looking down on us all. It's infantile thinking and I believe for man to progress into what we truly can be, it needs to be left behind and labeled as such.

Yeah. Being absolute is for idiots. I don't think anyone is saying religion is the SOLE factor in wars/violence.. But I think anyone who is a subjective human can agree it IS a contributing factor.


So is goverment.


Goverment=religion

Same shit. Same pros and cons.

One can fuel the other.

Word and trust Destro, I'd feel that if you spoke more tolerant of it and been more like "it just ain't for me personally". That's how I am about gay marriage, I have no right to decide what others should do, it just aint for me personally.

I got no beef with either side until they step too far, like I don't care if people start praying or thanking God or whatever but if they come at me on some "Imma smite you in tha name of Jesus!!", then I'm bout to shoryuken a nigga into Valhalla.

At some point within recent years, morals and belief systems in general have been replaced across the board with fanboyism. I don't think that outside of hatred or the desire to be "a part of some thing", there is much that drives the majority of people to their life choices these days.

show me the men who are willing to stand alone even if everybody else is against their point of view.

"Violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children: organized religion ought to have a great deal on its conscience."

I would gladly take the "it just ain't for me personally" viewpoint but I feel the need to answer directly to the proselytizing of Veritas.

hey guys i have much to say about all of this.

i hate when these discussions pop off when im at work tho.

when i get home i will thoroughly break down existence the human psyche and religions point of being

but for the main point of this thread you all missed, veritas is claiming abortions took more lives than anyone PARADING as being christian.

a true christian would never kill unless god himself commands him to. like abraham and his son. or whatever

a false leader like a pope cannot order a crusade because it is inherently not christian to kill others

also the organised church as a whole isnt christian.

but word ill school all you brainwashed dummies when i get home. the religious and non religious amongst THEE

The end game is to fix all the outdated policies and laws that aren't representative of freedom, equality, and the rights granted to people in the US Constitution.

Confederate flags aren't being banned except in government institutions. Being gay makes you oppressed, and standing up to the adversity of being oppressed does make you brave. Not coexisting with oppression, but fighting against it and for yourself, makes you brave.


If you're implying that white, straight, Christian folks are going to be oppressed against you're out of your goddamn mind.

We're moving towards tolerance not a new majority.

OK

Personally I don't know enough about history to talk about much of anything in the past outside of broad generalization or what I research on the spot

I don't think former political stances of a Party are really relevant once the people that actively hold those positions retire

repped

lmaaoooo

And thus the contradiction.

http://www.usconstitution.net/states_god.html

How can you possibly just "update" something to the point that it violates what it was written upon?


And before it becomes just an "America" argument...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consti...erences_to_God


WRONG. Items featuring confederate flags are being banned or censored on ebay. The Dukes of Hazard was pulled from rotation and NASCAR is already asking fans to not fly the flags at events as well as offering trade-ins for American flags at events. Teams with "Rebels" logos are being edited, most notably the Ole Miss Rebels becoming Black Bears now and removing the Rebel Colonel mascot. This is just to name a few, but clearly this is a movement with some force behind it, right?


If you don't think this has already begun, YOU'RE out of your goddamn mind, bro. How about a guesstimate? if you did a poll right now, how much of America do you think would actually consider there to be more corrupt cops than actual criminals out there? One man's "tolerance" eventually ends up as another man's oppression. History repeats itself, there's no escaping that fact.

It's easy to find actual documental evidence of these things, you can bank on it tbh.

and that last sentence of yours... if that were true, people wouldn't still be bitching about shit like slavery, confederate flags and holy wars.

the confederate flag should have been removed years ago
it's a fucking flag of a treasonous movement against the current acting Union
it should be viewed as such without even taking its original or current meanings into consideration

sounds like opinion disguised as fact.

try this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_...tes_of_America

If it helps, I personally do not give a shit about the flag... I don't own one, never flown one, never have and never will. I personally think it's stupid...

HOWEVER, I think it is outright fucking retarded to try and tell groups of people that they can't use it or deem it offensive based on opinion over facts.

I think for some people it's historical, I can understand both sides but again, do we even consider the endgame? What does this set in motion in regards to freedom of expression and our rights?

I'd rather ban the American flag personally, it was flown in drone strikes by our Democratic president that resulted on tons of innocent deaths of middle eastern kids. These are atrocities that happened during our lifetime that we should have more of a personal feeling towards.

Too soon?

tell me how saying that it's treasonous is an opinion
it's a flag flown by the south while attempting to succeed from the Union, the Union which still exists today
it's the definition of treason

The Founding Fathers were almost entirely non-religious, and practiced Deism, which is entirely separate from Christianity.

EDIT: actually, according to wikipedia-
-few founding fathers rejected christianity
-few founding fathers were devout christians
-almost all founding fathers were heavily influenced by rationalism & the enlightenment
-many founding fathers & scholars were influenced by Deism

http://www.britannica.com/topic/The-...ianity-1272214

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Uni...ristian_nation





Freedom of speech doesn't apply to private entities or privately run corporations.

If you don't like the movement behind removing what is, and always has been, a flag symbolic of white supremacy- then you should probably found a corporation that's willing to deal with the public backlash of not banning one.


#YesAllCops

Bold part is straight retarded dude. Tolerance is never oppression. Can you give a single example of how tolerance is oppression?

If people weren't still subject to discrimination--religious, racial or otherwise-- then people offhandedly dismissing these as things of the past wouldn't seem so ignorant

Next you're going to tell me that we finally won and beat The Racism

it's funny cuz all the people defending the fuckery are religious/southern

what a surprise huh.


yo what i dont get...is the brush off of the blatant hatred that flag showcases...with people saying.

but its about heritage

what heritage?

treason
bigotry
oppression
segregation
slavery


i mean yeah....heritage folk.

i wanna keep the memory alive that my ancestors where slave owning white supremacists lol

great logic guys...let me guess you got hypocrisy in one hand and the bible in the other....perfect match fellas

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern...nfederate_flag

You can think it's outright retarded to deem something offensive, but then, if you're not offended by it how would you understand?

You're allowed to fly any flag and express your rights. You're free to fly a Nazi flag, if you'd like. The first amendment affords you that right.


LOL

General Obama, Harbringer of RC Doom, sitting on his throne of lies as he divebombs plane after plane into Iraqi kindergarten graduation

Fucking retarded man. Guess which regime led us astray in the war on terror?

What president withdrew troops from the Middle East instead of actively vetoing a bill that had a provision that deadlined their withdrawal?

Do you even know the civilian casualty rates of air strikes compared to drone strikes?


Do you even know anything about anything besides what you have to say to make your points seem based in fact?

no, not at all. That is ridiciulous and against the nature of the universe bro.

@Veritas you are the new Chyeeah.

so innocent deaths are cool?

enlighten me then on what your problem with abortion is?

God plz let this thrad go forever

do you cry when a sun in a far off galaxy goes supernova and destroys a galaxy?

do you bat an eye when you kill a mosquito?

would you kill a man who broke into your house and raped your wife?

no
no
yes

point?

Des I need to know if your step dad was bald

so your definition of innocent is subjective? especially when it comes to taking lives?

of course
the term innocence is in itself subjective

and @Hush, nah, but he is mexican

Watch how easy this is...

What you fail to realize in this is that there was no perfect North and South division like you'd like to paint it out to be, there were multiple points of view on each side. Have you ever heard of Copperheads? Fuck it, of course not... here I got you:

The Copperheads were a large faction of northern Democrats who opposed the war, demanding an immediate peace settlement. They said they wanted to restore "the Union as it was" (that is, with the South and with slavery) but they realized that the Confederacy would never voluntarily rejoin the U.S.[20] The most prominent Copperhead was Ohio's Clement L. Vallandigham, a Congressman and leader of the Democratic Party in Ohio. He was defeated in an intense election for governor in 1863. Republican prosecutors in the Midwest accused some Copperhead activists of treason in a series of trials in 1864.[21]

try this:

The confederate Congress specified that black soldiers were to receive the same pay as the white soldiers. The Union army’s black soldiers were paid less than the white soldiers. A black soldier in the Union army would have been paid $10 a month with a $3 clothing fee taken out, leaving the soldier with $7 a month. White soldiers were paid $13 a month and were not forced to pay a clothing allowance, which is almost twice as much as the black soldiers. By contrast the Confederate army paid their privates of both races $11/month until 1864. Equal pay for both races in the federal army did not come into effect until June 1864. The Confederate Army also authorized a salary for black musicians in 1862.

or maybe even this:


In 1864, the Confederate States began to abandon slavery. There are some indications that even without a war, the Confederacy would have ended slavery. Most historians believe that the Confederacy only started to abandon slavery once their defeat was imminent. If that were true then we are to believe that the CSA wanted independence more than they wanted to hold on to slavery. The CSA’s highest ranking generals, Robert E. Lee and Joseph E. Johnston were not slave holders and did not believe in slavery. And according to an 1860 census, only 31% of families owned slaves. 75% of families that owned slaves owned less than 10 and often worked beside them in the fields. The Confederate Constitution banned the overseas slave trade, and permitted Confederate states to abolish slavery within their borders if they wanted to do so. Slavery wasn’t abolished until 1868, 3 years after the war. Thus Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland and Delaware still had slaves.

My take on this is that it was Us vs Us and that is always a fail, but yeah it's no different than the division we face now with Dems vs Repubs that always has the potential to go downhill. I'm just open-minded enough to realize that politicians on both sides have similar agendas and I trust neither.

For the record, I've never cared about the Civil War, I've never been a confederate supporter in any way. I think it's stupid and it was dark times for the US as a nation but still 600,000+ people lost their lives in that war and it may mean different things to those peoples families much like the American flag does to the families of the soldiers who died in Iraq basically in a war over oil.


It's no different than a Mexican always siding with minorities tho, right?


Would some direct quotes change your mind?

http://christianity.about.com/od/ind...ingfathers.htm

And just for the record, are you saying that the founding fathers were ok with abortion, gay marriage and transgender equality in general? I mean, we aren't even arguing if they were right or wrong, we are discussing is what their actual intentions were. I'm just saying, that it is hard to simply "amend" something that they would all be unanimously against and perhaps it should be rewritten... if you can follow this logic, I await your brilliant response.


Perhaps you are missing the point here???? You even touch on it in that last sentence and still miss out. It is more about the backlash itself rather than it being offensive. People are folding to political correctness more so than what they believe in. I own ZERO confederate flags, never saluted one or flown one. I felt the same exact way when ebay started banning Nazi items though, it means nothing to me but I can see the historical importance.

As far as "white supremacy" goes, at least the Confederacy was paying the black soldiers equal pay back before it was en vogue. AMIRITE?

lolololol

Care to elab on the "YesAllCops"?

As for your question, sure... Over the years there have been multiple organizations founded for "equal rights" for minorities. I mean, that makes perfect sense, they actually were treated unfairly and these organizations helped level the playing field in many instances. If a person is discriminated due to their sexual orientation, there is an organization that comes in to defend their interests. If I'm black and I am racially discriminated against, I could get the NAACP involved and maybe even get my story on BET. So, tell me what happens when a white person gets discriminated against? Who do they call lol? At what point does equal rights turn into special privileges?

A lot of people don't even believe that whites can even be victims of racism tbh. They invent their own definitions of words, generally confusing stereotyping with racism the majority of the time.

Equal rights campaigns such as the NAACP become "special rights" campaigns when black people are no longer disadvantaged

Gay people will stop being glamorized in the news when business owners stop boycotting gays due to their sexuality & calling someone gay or a faggot isn't funny but analogous to calling someone a nigger- outdated, weird and old-fashioned, tasteless and offensive

White people are not discriminated against. It's a myth. It doesn't happen. Some black dude saying "white people should all die" is racist but it's not the racism that prevents a black man from making as much money as an equally talented white person, when cities are gentrified it's not black people forcing white folks out of where they have lived for generations to serve higher socioeconomic classes.

When black kids qualify for all the scholarships and get admitted over little Jimmy the polo star A-student, well Jimmy gets preferential treatment from a pure admissions standpoint because he grew up in an environment that allowed him to become a better college applicant- one that black kids are precluded from. So unfair right!


As for your quotes-

Look deeper lmao. Washington refused to swear to God when he was sworn in, Jefferson wrote his own Bible, someone showed Ben Franklin a Christian vs Deist argument and he sided with Deism & become a fierce advocate, etc etc

Christianity.about.com can fuck itself with its own journalistic integrity in the most homosexual way possible


Whites cannot be victims of systematic racism. Other forms of racism, yes. But those are universal in all societies and are not the kind that advancement programs seek to counteract


http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/yesallwomen

All I am saying is that this is not a Christian nation. The intent of the founding fathers was not tied to the Church or any religious doctrine

The Constitution is held dear because it is something that our country was formed around, but it is not our Holy Bible, it's a document that's at the core of our federal government

I think the Constitution can very, very easily be extended to allow for abortion, gay marriage, and transgender equality.

To be clear, I don't really care what Jefferson/ Franklin/ Adams would have thought of abortion

Well how about a little social experiment, shall we? Scour the posts on this forum, we can use this forum as a catalyst. I'm sure that you will find that most people here have hatred towards Christians and sympathy for black youth VS cops. Generally, because these are messages directly conveyed through headline stories. A black cop killing a white kid surely happened but that isn't newsworthy. A white male getting racially discriminated against isn't gonna make a headline either. It's not what people want to hear, even though it happens.

Let me ask you a serious question... Are you seriously naïve enough to fear the KKK right now on any believable level? Black people kill more black people each year than the KKK have in their entire existence. I live in the south and I don't know a single person or heard of a single person involved in the KKK nor have I seen any presence whatsoever. I barely rank them above The Boogeyman and Amanda Bynes on the national threat-o-meter of doom.






Speaking of hypocrisy tho...

Just because you don't understand why somebody does it, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be allowed to do it, especially if it isn't hurting anybody.

see also: Gay Marriage

Sooo, how about this... You for gay marriage or not?

/thread?

No, again you missed the point. It's retarded to think just because something is offensive to you then it has to be offensive to everybody else.

Maybe my uncle was killed in a drive-by by a Crip, should you not be allowed to wear blue due to my personal feelings?

It's the same with the military to this day, some support the troops, some don't... that's a right. Soldiers returning from Nam were labeled "baby killers" by a huge number of the population, maybe they were, maybe they weren't. Your opinion is clearly that all the flag represented was slavery even though I'm sure some people would state that it meant many other things to them but you are so sure that you're right.


hahahaha! I get it now, of course you're a democrat that thinks he can spin the whole "Oh yeah, but Bush did this or that..."

gtfo.

Fuck Bush, he was a piece of shit. But, you some how think that pointing out Bush's flaws automatically saves Obama? Really tho, explain how that works out for you when you aren't aren't with a Republican.

Semantics all day...

DO YOU EVEN COUNTER-POINT, BRO?


Oh but how did you miss it? You see, my points are based off of facts. You see, I will offer my opinions on things, however unlike you, I do not attempt to pass my opinions off as facts. If you read my posts, you will see plain as day.

Case-in-point... You just defended Obama's actions by claiming that Bush did worse or trying to argue statistics. None of which changed the fact that Obama killed those children. My point was that he did it and I could see how people would be offended from their own point-of-view and perhaps be offended by an American flag. So, what I said was fact and what you said was opinion and ironically, that too is in fact, a fact.

see how it works now tho?

on a completely different subject, I just want to say that I am forever impressed by the actual ages of our founding fathers. most of those dudes were in their 20s and accomplished more in such a short amount of time than most people do in their entire lives today

LOL. Who decides when that is? How about when almost 97% of blacks vote for a black president? Cause yo, that already happened.

Again, who decides when this is? LOLOLOLOL. It's now stylish to be gay, Kristen Stewart and Miley Cyrus are doing it.

congrats on the most ignorant thing you've said thus far. This goes back to opinion VS fact. You only deal in opinion where I deal in fact. Dispute this, a black billionaire buys a company and hires a full staff of 17,000 black people and only allows 22 white people to be hired as cleaning staff making minimum wage while the rest of the staff make $20+ an hour. White people aren't even allowed to interview outside of cleaning staff and forward advancement is not allowed. Your logic behind why this would not be discrimination can only be opinion.

Perhaps you've never heard of this thing called BLACK COLLEGES. Try Googling it if you get a minute. Also, check into this other thing called BASKETBALL SCHOLARSHIPS. Yeah, and maybe AMERICAN NEGRO COLLEGE FUN, A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE AND NAACP tho. Hey, can I ask you a for really real question tho? Wouldn't what you're suggesting only matter to RICH white kids? Would that mean that poor black kids have way more options educationally than poor white kids????? I mena, think on it a minute... what breaks do poor white kids get? I can't remember right off-hand.

facts only pls.


"Look deeper"... what is this, The X-Files??????????

maybe they should've removed IN GOD WE TRUST and/or ONE NATION UNDER GOD off of everything they fucking made or not have people take oaths on a bible like they did.

fun argument we're having here bro...forreal.

fact or fiction tho? ... you call it.

bro, In God we trust and Under God were added in the 50s in response to the great communism scare

E Pluribus Unim was the OG shit
out of many, one.
still relevant, and no reference to God
learn your shit

Obama didn't kill anyone you lunatic lmao
Neither did Bush

I'm not defending Obama from anything except the idea that he should be the scapegoat for all the bloodshed from our Crusade Against the Terrorists

pointing out Bush's flaws saved Obama because you just tried to shift the blame for what Bush did onto Obama


I'm also not a Democrat. You just assumed that because I disagreed with you about the confederate flag.

The battle flag (the flag you think "might mean something to some people") wasn't used by any states until it was resurrected by the KKK and then used in 1948 by the Dixiecrats.

What it represents is exactly that.

Your "facts" are not facts. I'm not sure how you think 'oh her der I never seen people get racism-ed here's some quotes that say God in them never mind the context of all of their other written work look here on the forums black kids are privileged because they get social media when they get shot' is valid anything


Did you really just argue that cops shooting a white kid wouldn't be news, but them shooting a black kid is national headlines?

Cops don't shoot white kids
if they did it would definitely be national news are you dumb
WHITE MALES DONT GET DISCRIMINATED AGAINST
you are literally the worst arguer on the board and I've argued with Chyeahh like 50x

The fact that you think this is indicative of the end of discrimination is laughable

When and where did this happen? Link? Very interested in this one


Poor white kids get financial assistance from the government, but educationally do way way better than poor black kids

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/dat...te-and-unequal

No, this is you farming quotes that support your argument, not looking at the bigger picture.

You are very, very misguided. See: Destroyer.

White people believing they are opressed is hilarious to me.

Again, I do not care what they thought either. Nor did I ever imply that it was tied to a specific church. All I do is dispute your opinions with facts...


Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, Drafted by Jefferson in 1776:
Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, but to extend it by its influence on reason alone; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time. …


Go ahead, put a spin on it. This is fun.



Step away from the semantics, Destroyer. You can feel free to go right ahead and argue all of those direct quotes from the founding fathers I already dropped in this thread that mention God. It's not hard to add anything "God-related" to something that is already established as God-related. We can agree all day on opinion based stuff like "separation of church and state is needed" but that doesn't negate the fact that God is mentioned quite a bit throughout the US's entire history.

You ready to learn your shit now?


hahaahahahahahaha wut?

That last line, bro...lol.

Nope. YOU tried to do that.

How could I possibly shift the blame to Bush for the drone attacks that Obama himself ordered in Iraq after Bush was replaced in office by Obama?

http://gopthedailydose.com/wp-conten...mber-obama.jpg

I mean, wow bro. Again, I drop a fact on you...it is documented and proven that it happened but you ain't trying to hear that, right?????


Actually, nope again. It's because you blamed Bush for Obama's failings. That's a red flag tbh (no confed tho)



You sure there weren't a lot of Dukes of Hazard fans in the 70's that just thought it looked cool?

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.11862...x550,075,f.jpg

I mean, unless you think that everybody with a Sons of Anarchy shirt supports bike gangs.

Which I wouldn't doubt.



Again, this is opinion. I see racism all the time. I see it against all different races. I've seen more against black people when I was growing up but that doesn't mean that I think it only happens to black people.


Did you really just argue that cops shooting a white kid wouldn't be news, but them shooting a black kid is national headlines?

You argue with Chyeahh cause he's on your level, both yall niggas just be making up stupid shit and callin it facts like you just did above.

Here, I got you tho....


come
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bristol...alt-lake-city/

at
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1619842


me
http://www.inquisitr.com/1412236/dil...lice-shooting/


lololololololol


You miss the point again. Once things start becoming culturally acceptable, do we not see a trend of what was once culturally acceptable being discriminated against? Case-in-point, Veritas is the only dude on this website dropping bible verses and that shit went over well, huh?

What would be your reasoning for thinking it doesn't happen?

You do know that it has been a topic researched and debated for a few years now, right?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/12/21/whi...ion/index.html

I mean, you can pick your own news service that you like for further Goggling...

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/jury-fu...-job-ap/nRPnf/

^Ware said the jury shouldn’t have heard secondhand testimony that Commissioner Emma Darnell played a role, allegedly telling a deputy county manager that she had “too many white boys” in Human Services and the new director should be black and female.

I mean, it is flat out retarded to think that racism isn't universal.

HAHAHAHA! are we arguing how well they perform in school now? Because yo, that is a totally different argument and I hope you are smart enough to know so.

You killin me, Smalls.


Nope. just me "Looking deeper" like you told me I should do. Right?

Well, at least we agree that Destroyer is misguided, that is progress.

But yo, you shouldn't bring opinions to a fact fight. lmao

DESTRO IS MAD AT GOD BECAUSE HIS STEP DAD LEFT HIM AND THEN FOUND GOD AND STILL LEFT HIM. THREAD OVER. ILLOGICAL HATE IS EXPLAINED. THERE CANNOT BE A GOD. I HAVE TO HAVE A REASON TO HARBOR THIS HATRED.


PLUS BATTY IS OWNING YALL.


GOD WILL ALWAYS WIN OVER HUMANS. HIS FOOLISHNESS IS HIGHER THAN OUR WISDOM.