When you're at the top, no one can get to you to fight you.

certain you're not a hockey fan j stop b. Yes gretz could evade checks via anticipation but players respected him too much. There were plenty of times he got decked hard, one time hawerchuk slammed his dome piece into the ice like a savage animal, think his helmet might've came off b4 he hit the ice too, back when gretz was on the oil. Yes Wayne was the man but he's not clear cut #1. What sports do you actually like bro. J stick to those.

Wayne Gretzky had Marty McSorley doing his dirty work because alpha males don't need to scrap.

lol I don't feel like disucssing this further w a non hockey fan. Semenko>mcsorley, gretz was quick and had a diesel brain but mario and bobby can be ranked above in terms of pure talent incl. hockey sense

I used to be a hockey fan, a pretty big one. I know about these guys.

I mostly agree with you. Bobby Orr at his best probably was the best hockey player ever. And Mario Lemieux was ridiculous. But I think you're underrating Wayne Gretzky. His stick work absolutely paid off on defense, even though he wasn't physical. And he was better at passing than anyone has been at any aspect of hockey.

What do Dave Semenko and Marty McSorley have to do with this, anyway, other than protecting Gretzky?

ok cool I mean ur right gretz w/ a bad back still led the league in assists at 37 y/o with a bad back. Height of the dead puck era. Throwing dirty tape to tape sauce like an fuckin OG on the NYR, 97 points I believe during the year before his penultimate yr. Mario's hands at his size were too filthy to comprehend, his poise was boss status too, like when he powered by a beleaguered Ray Bourque, put it thru his legs then sniped top shelf w eaze. His hockey sense was right there w/ wayne, the goalies during the 80s were horrible and I could prob score on some of them like 2-5x/10 with time on breakaways. Gretz is one of the GOATS but his stats come from playing in the highest scoring era hockey ever saw, he and mario both benefited but for sure gretz and mario both are two steps above guys like crosby and ovechkin who might be comparable to the send tier of elite centers during gretzky's years (modano fedorov yzerman sakic messier just ridiculous talent, best center talent concentration ever in the league by far was 90s)

Gretzky's defense was ok but laughable compared to selke centers or even above average checking centers. He scored so much why would he need to worry about defense? Godlike in that respect, nobody else could get away w that...

peep this video for proof of wayne's suspect defense in this case losing his team the series lol (blues overachieved that yr anyways tho):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuezWrP9Gys

LOL oops

Gordie Howe needs to be mentioned here, too, if only for his 41-point season as a 51-year-old.

howe is a distant #4

I've always preferred to talk about what people accomplished rather than how good they were in their primes, though. The latter is purely opinion. I could make a legitimate argument that for that brief run two or three years ago before he got hurt, Sidney Crosby absolutely was on the top-tier level. Eric Lindros looks pretty great if you only take into account his best.

But Gordie Howe was incredible because of his longevity and dominance. He definitely accomplished more in hockey than Bobby Orr. He trails only Wayne Gretzky in terms of what he actually did on the ice over his entire career.

LOL Crosby is iight but not even top 20 all-time yet, he MIGHT with lots of luck squeeze into a 20-25 spot by the time his career's finished if he just dazzles the rest of his career but most likely he's somewhere in 30-40 all-time. there's at least at least at least 20 fwds and 15 d men I'd easily rank above him now not to mention goalies like sawchuk and dryden.

Crosby is a concussion magnet faggot

I'm saying that there was that streak where he was averaging three points a game. For that very brief run, you could have argued he was playing as well as anyone ever. But that's why I think you look at the full body of work. And the full body of work for Bobby Orr is nine seasons.

Hockey sucks.

New topic pls.

Gretzky
Lemiuex
Howe
Kharlamov
Bure
Lafluer
Bossy
Jagr
Beliveau
Mikita Esposito
Trottier
Dionne
Rocket Richard
Bobby clarke
Forsberg
Sakic
Yzerman
Lindros prime
Messier
Bobby and Brett Hull
Shanahan
debatable:
Francis
Neely
Cournoyer
dionne
Robitaille
Gartner
Kurri

Then on D u got:
Potvin
Robinson
Borque
Shore
Orr
Pronger
Coffey
Leetch
Mcinnis
Coffey
Harvey
Niedermayer
Pilote
Murphy
Park

Goalies:
Roy
Hasek
Hall
Broduer
Plante
Sawchuk
Tretiak
Dryden

I'd put Stamkos above him too maybe.

Could easily double this list if I thought about it. Actually your boy might not break top 50 all time I doubt it even w. concussion probs

lmao gretz avged that for 50 games b. plz stop.

bt dubs u know how many phantom assists they give crosby? ridiculous, he's a pussy like split said there have been times he didnt even touch the puck and got an apple

I don't like Sidney Crosby. I actively dislike the entire city of Pittsburgh. Do not call him my boy or pretend that I am making any case for him. This is hypothetical. Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

certain j stop u fatass ur hockey knowledge is abysmal my nigga...stfu