Abortion responsible for more deaths than region
1 yr of abortion
About 6,000 of religious wars at the LEAST


Nah we can't agree so just fuck off

I also don't agree that abortion = murder

yea she bad

and I don't necessarily agree that it's in man's nature to kill
maybe it was initially, but there's no reason to take both the viewpoint that we are more than animals and we can't rise above killing each other. There's a lot to be said about religion being one of the reasons we haven't risen above the savagery of needless killing. There's also a lot of debate about how much people have to be influenced before they will rise to such savagery on a massive scale, ie, the holocaust in WW2, systematic slavery in the U.S., etc. It's my personal belief that man is inherently good, which is the opposite of most religious thought.

also, every religion looks forward to an ending of it all, an apocalypse, when all of this ends.
why?
short of the eventual heat death of the universe I see no need to assume that it's just all going to come crashing down.
it's the most negative world view you could take about anything.
It's also a pass to allow you to get away with whatever atrocities you commit in the name of said religion because all of this doesn't really matter anyway because it's all gonna end eventually?
nah, fuck that, I rather own my place in this world, my contribution to it, and look toward a future where man perseveres indefinitely

Hush.

I am asking you to agree that there have been more murders from abortion in the last year = 58 million

than all the religious wars in our history.

if you cannot agree to that,

can you agree that there has been far more deaths due to war of just nations fighting nations and abortion than deaths from wars over the name of God?

fair?

Veritas, can we agree that if there has been even one innocent death caused by religion in all of history than that is too many?

fair?

Abortion is not murder

murder is murder

Veritas reminds me of my shithead stepdad who cheated on my moms for prolly like 25 years then divorced, immediately remarried and found the church. Hasn't called me in 7 years, but texts me on every religious holiday to wish me "blessings."
fuck out of here with your bleeding heart bullshit, Veritas
there's no such thing as vicarious redemption

I'm going to need citations for your statistics. Do you have this?

lmfao
knuck agrees with Veritas

you lose

And this perfectly explains your intense hatred for religion. It's understandable, just as much so as the person who had a positive religious experience and now is too blind to acknowledge any of its faults. I think V's whole point in this thread is that people consistently quote untrue things about Christianity, a point that you further drive home if you say that Christianity is just about brainwashing and teaching that people are evil and must be killed in the name of said religion. Those statements do not describe even a small percentage of Christians in the world at all. It basically covers extremists and mental cases.

Some dude accidently killed himself the other day trying to launch fireworks off of his head. That however doesn't mean that fireworks aren't fun to watch.

Think about the state the world would be in if everybody believed there were ZERO consequences for their actions. Any religion that keeps a person somewhat "in-check" for fear of consequences should be welcomed in society. Nobody wants to talk about how fear of "God's wrath" can be all that stop a lot of people from killing, raping and destroying.

Think about it.

I knew that would be exactly how that was taken. My disdain for religion came around a long time before that example of hypocrisy which I used above. I came to my own conclusions at a young age that religion was simply a business, which is exactly what it is.
And now, it's a cause for people to commit all kinds of atrocities that they use religious beliefs to justify. Morality isn't derived from religion, Roy, it precedes it.

and to simply say 'it has its faults," isn't accurate
it is a fault

in contrast, I believe I am the voice of the solution

Religious people by and large develop personal beliefs from religion

Peoples' personal beliefs affect how they vote

That shit harms society, considering religion is based on teachings from ancient manuscripts

If you think "oh that's only 5% of religious people like extremists" then you're not talking about religious people, you're talking about avid holy book club enthusiasts

I feel as if all of those things are really beside the point. I'm not going to defend any of the horrible things that have happened in the name of a religion, nor would I try to with slavery or any of the other things that happened before we got where we are now as a race. What do those things have to do with where we are now? Whenever you have trouble acknowledging both pros and cons of some thing, you lose your ability to consider things rationally.

Basically, I see your points and they have merit but you only acknowledge the cons of religion and that isn't rational.

Fair?

Roy, when the cons outweigh the pros, that's how something is judged as bad

Word?

Do tell us what is "the problem "

Knuck, if you don't see why this debate is important, why continue to contribute to it?